Cam, Intake and 24X options for LT1
Cam, Intake and 24X options for LT1 Here's the deal, I'm looking to freshen up my LT1 and want to upgrade the electronics to something I can tune with EFI Live V2. I bought it for my D-Max and want to make the most of it.
It's a 355 and has H-beam rods, and JE Forged pistons. I'm looking to put new rings and bearings in it and then re-work the heads with new springs to handle the revs.
I have a Schneider Racing cam I bought a few years back it's pretty decent size 238I/242E @.050" camlift and .592"I/.600"E lift. I think that's bigger than an 847 and would need RPM to perform well.
I'm thinking about intakes to use with this setup. I'm not sure I want to go with a single plane because it still needs to be somewhat streetable. I'm wondering if anyone has tried using a Ramjet intake on an LT1. I ask because it might spread the torque out across the RPM range and still do well near the top, plus it lets me use a single blade TB and distributor sensor for the conversion.
On the other hand I am looking at the Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT for the same reasons.
I'm looking to buy a lightweight valve-train, intake, and 0411 PCM + misc extras to complete.
Does this theory make sense at all or am I just crazy?
It's a 355 and has H-beam rods, and JE Forged pistons. I'm looking to put new rings and bearings in it and then re-work the heads with new springs to handle the revs.
I have a Schneider Racing cam I bought a few years back it's pretty decent size 238I/242E @.050" camlift and .592"I/.600"E lift. I think that's bigger than an 847 and would need RPM to perform well.
I'm thinking about intakes to use with this setup. I'm not sure I want to go with a single plane because it still needs to be somewhat streetable. I'm wondering if anyone has tried using a Ramjet intake on an LT1. I ask because it might spread the torque out across the RPM range and still do well near the top, plus it lets me use a single blade TB and distributor sensor for the conversion.
On the other hand I am looking at the Edelbrock Pro-Flo XT for the same reasons.
I'm looking to buy a lightweight valve-train, intake, and 0411 PCM + misc extras to complete.
Does this theory make sense at all or am I just crazy?
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: Midwest City, Ok
You are making complete sense but I think aftermarket or ported stock heads and a ported factory LT1 intake could get you where you want to go. AI, LE, or TEA could all give you the topend to accomplish whatever you need and the 24x kit is probably the easiest way to give you an EFILive compatible computer.
Though I'm a huge fan of DIY projects, I agree with a lot of the forum members that believe in proven kits. All of the vendors and products I have mentioned are proven and relatively simple to install. You don't want a single plane for a small cubic inch streetcar and I don't think the Ramjet or Pro Flo XT will grant you much of an improvement over a ported LT1 intake. These intakes are really incredible at what they can accomplish with a mild port and polish.
So to sum things up, a top end kit spec'd by any of the people above that include a camshaft are the best bet that you have of assembling a street able engine with good power. I know that you already have a camshaft but a custom grind will net you more power under the curve and make for a much more enjoyable car.
Though I'm a huge fan of DIY projects, I agree with a lot of the forum members that believe in proven kits. All of the vendors and products I have mentioned are proven and relatively simple to install. You don't want a single plane for a small cubic inch streetcar and I don't think the Ramjet or Pro Flo XT will grant you much of an improvement over a ported LT1 intake. These intakes are really incredible at what they can accomplish with a mild port and polish.
So to sum things up, a top end kit spec'd by any of the people above that include a camshaft are the best bet that you have of assembling a street able engine with good power. I know that you already have a camshaft but a custom grind will net you more power under the curve and make for a much more enjoyable car.
I understand you run the 0411 with a Vortec distributor. Could the stock manifold be machined for that? (well, will it fit?) I'm all for it if it would be the cheapest route and still be adequate. I'd be thrilled if I could spend that money on 'better' electronics and valve-train. Plus it would fit under the cowl.
I talked with Schneider on the cam and those specs were with 1.6 rockers. They told me I could run it with 1.5 rockers and tame it down a bit for the street.
I talked with Schneider on the cam and those specs were with 1.6 rockers. They told me I could run it with 1.5 rockers and tame it down a bit for the street.
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 253
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From: Midwest City, Ok
https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-m...-finished.html
That is the thread with a bunch of pictures of my swap. The distributor does fit under the cowl of an F-Body but just barely and you can keep the stock fuel rails as well.
The intake I'm running is a stock LT1 piece so yes it can be machined to hold a distributor. If you are or know a competent machinist and welder its not too difficult to modify it.
I did my research before I started the swap and ran in to very little trouble it. I have plenty of suggestions and documents to help you with the swap if you decide to go that direction but I have say that the 24x kit seems a bit less involved.
If you want to save a little money and feel a lot more accomplished, I say go for the Vortec distributor. If you want to spend a little more money for a proven kit with documented results go with the 24x.
Either way you gain EFILive, eliminate the Optispark, and become a little more unique. Can't go wrong with that!
That is the thread with a bunch of pictures of my swap. The distributor does fit under the cowl of an F-Body but just barely and you can keep the stock fuel rails as well.
The intake I'm running is a stock LT1 piece so yes it can be machined to hold a distributor. If you are or know a competent machinist and welder its not too difficult to modify it.
I did my research before I started the swap and ran in to very little trouble it. I have plenty of suggestions and documents to help you with the swap if you decide to go that direction but I have say that the 24x kit seems a bit less involved.
If you want to save a little money and feel a lot more accomplished, I say go for the Vortec distributor. If you want to spend a little more money for a proven kit with documented results go with the 24x.
Either way you gain EFILive, eliminate the Optispark, and become a little more unique. Can't go wrong with that!
I wouldn't be so quick to want to ditch the LT1 intake, people love to hate it but it actually works better in practice than people believe it should in theory.
With that much cam in a 355 I think you are going to need the rpm capabilities of the 24x.
Any reason you don't just want to go with the 24x cam position setup?
Swapping to 1.5s would be about making it easier on springs, it isn't going to have much effect on drivability. Really with that much duration and that lift the lobes might not be very aggressive, guys run those lift numbers with 10degrees less duration these days.
With that much cam in a 355 I think you are going to need the rpm capabilities of the 24x.
Any reason you don't just want to go with the 24x cam position setup?
Swapping to 1.5s would be about making it easier on springs, it isn't going to have much effect on drivability. Really with that much duration and that lift the lobes might not be very aggressive, guys run those lift numbers with 10degrees less duration these days.
I was wondering the same thing y not just use cps and for boosted, w that distributor set up is that just for timing or ????? Do u still use a single coil and if so the pcm obviously doesnt control that. So the intake on that is that a tpis mini ram and w the 4x reluctor what kinda ctrl do have w programming and are u maf or speed density.......just curious never seen a 0411 without the cps and coil per cylinder i understand u jumped from the opti to a much better piece, I guess i dont understand how it all works together cms like alot of stand alone systems or does the o411 run it all, not hating at all looks like alot of thought went into it just curious how it works together.
As 96capricemgr said, im wondering why you dont go ahead and get the 24x cam sensor. From my understanding to do it as boosted did you have to use an older operating system and an older pcm. To maximize a 24x setup you will want the higher resolution 24 tooth crank reluctor and a 12200411 pcm will the 02 operating system.
You will also not get coil on plug ignition.
Im not trying to convince you one way or the other really, Im just trying to help you make the most informed decision!!
You will also not get coil on plug ignition.
Im not trying to convince you one way or the other really, Im just trying to help you make the most informed decision!!
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Launching!
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: Midwest City, Ok
Lt1needingboost, with my 0411 swap everything is controlled by the PCM even the single coil. I used the factory 4x crank position sensor from my 97 and the 1x cam sensor in my new distributor and tuned my PCM as a 2002 Express Van with a 5.7L GenI Vortec. I essentially created a crank trigger system. The Vortec distributor contains only a Cam Sensor and a rotor, there are no vacuum or mechanical advance provision because my PCM takes care of that.
My intake is a factory B body LT1 that I modified to hold a distributor and my swap is MAF enabled currently but will eventually be 2 or 3 bar SD with the Procharger.
And as for why I did it this way, well I'm a first year college student without much money so a 24x was out of the question but I needed the ability to run a positive pressure MAP sensor so this was my budget solution. I also have this ego thing about using kits. I always want to figure out if I can do it myself in a different manner.
My intake is a factory B body LT1 that I modified to hold a distributor and my swap is MAF enabled currently but will eventually be 2 or 3 bar SD with the Procharger.
And as for why I did it this way, well I'm a first year college student without much money so a 24x was out of the question but I needed the ability to run a positive pressure MAP sensor so this was my budget solution. I also have this ego thing about using kits. I always want to figure out if I can do it myself in a different manner.
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: Midwest City, Ok
As 96capricemgr said, im wondering why you dont go ahead and get the 24x cam sensor. From my understanding to do it as boosted did you have to use an older operating system and an older pcm. To maximize a 24x setup you will want the higher resolution 24 tooth crank reluctor and a 12200411 pcm will the 02 operating system.
You will also not get coil on plug ignition.
You will also not get coil on plug ignition.
Both of these are addressed in the swap that I performed mine just isn't quite as cool.
Boosted thank you for the knowledge, color me impressed i wldve nvr thought to do the distributor. Ive never even heard of done aside from way built tpi engines. As for the ego thing i think we all have that the difference is in the ability to effectively work thru problems they arise, do u mind me asking ur major (engineering, medical) just curious. I have a therory abt troubleshooters
Mechanical Engineering FTW
I'd like to run the distributor unless there are great gains to be had with the 24x. I think RPM capabilities are the deciding factor. I have 2 other vehicles running the Gen I Vortec so I'd like to do it this way
. I've repinned harnesses before (when I was a broke hungry college student) so it does not scare me.
Boosted, can I reflash any 0411 with the 02 express tune? or custom OS? Do you have any data on the sensors/signals required needed for the LS PCM?
I want to pick one OS to use on all my Vortec motors and get good at tuning it/scripting...........maybe I could conjure up a way to use an LT manifold on the Vortec
I'd like to run the distributor unless there are great gains to be had with the 24x. I think RPM capabilities are the deciding factor. I have 2 other vehicles running the Gen I Vortec so I'd like to do it this way
. I've repinned harnesses before (when I was a broke hungry college student) so it does not scare me. Boosted, can I reflash any 0411 with the 02 express tune? or custom OS? Do you have any data on the sensors/signals required needed for the LS PCM?
I want to pick one OS to use on all my Vortec motors and get good at tuning it/scripting...........maybe I could conjure up a way to use an LT manifold on the Vortec
Mechanical Engineering FTW
I'd like to run the distributor unless there are great gains to be had with the 24x. I think RPM capabilities are the deciding factor. I have 2 other vehicles running the Gen I Vortec so I'd like to do it this way. I've repinned harnesses before (when I was a broke hungry college student) so it does not scare me.
Boosted, can I reflash any 0411 with the 02 express tune? or custom OS? Do you have any data on the sensors/signals required needed for the LS PCM?
I want to pick one OS to use on all my Vortec motors and get good at tuning it/scripting...........maybe I could conjure up a way to use an LT manifold on the Vortec
I'd like to run the distributor unless there are great gains to be had with the 24x. I think RPM capabilities are the deciding factor. I have 2 other vehicles running the Gen I Vortec so I'd like to do it this way
. I've repinned harnesses before (when I was a broke hungry college student) so it does not scare me. Boosted, can I reflash any 0411 with the 02 express tune? or custom OS? Do you have any data on the sensors/signals required needed for the LS PCM?
I want to pick one OS to use on all my Vortec motors and get good at tuning it/scripting...........maybe I could conjure up a way to use an LT manifold on the Vortec
If you can get the machining for the intake on the cheap then go for the dizzy, it will be cheaper.
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sales@bp-automotive.com
www.bp-automotive.com
1-888-467-4491
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Launching!
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: Midwest City, Ok
Also, if the distributor is disassembled down to only the base (i.e. remove the cap and rotor) and is fed through the hole in the intake while you slide them on to the engine together as a unit, the engine doesn't have to be dropped from the car. I did my entire swap without touching the motor mounts.
So you can see that all included, even if you bloated each of these individual prices (assuming I got an astronimcal deal on the parts) and paid for a mail order tune to start the car (unneeded) you would come in well under $1000 for the swap.
Also, you are still gaining all the benefits of the 24x system besides COP. I see no reason why this setup should not turn 8000+ RPM reliably, it supports CustomOS from both EFILive and HPTuners and you still have no Optispark. Whoopie!!!!
Launching!
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: Midwest City, Ok
Originally Posted by crazydavez28
I've repinned harnesses before (when I was a broke hungry college student) so it does not scare me.
Originally Posted by crazydavez28
Boosted, can I reflash any 0411 with the 02 express tune? or custom OS? Do you have any data on the sensors/signals required needed for the LS PCM?
My 0411 inputs are
TPS
IAT
MAP
MAF
CKP
CMP
4 HO2S
Knock Sensor
VSS
And the PCM outputs are compatible with the factory LT1
IAC
ICM
Fan Relays
Originally Posted by crazydavez28
I want to pick one OS to use on all my Vortec motors and get good at tuning it/scripting...........maybe I could conjure up a way to use an LT manifold on the Vortec
Last edited by BOOSTED AFR; Dec 11, 2012 at 12:26 AM.
This is very good info, it's not often my plans to modify get cheaper lol. I have a feeling I'll be doing a lot of modifications this winter.
I'm just wondering which sensors TPS etc will need to be changed out from the stock LT1 sensors.
I just spent my boatload of cash on the truck and just want to do some simple 'cheap' upgrades when I have it all out of the car. then I can try it on my other Vortec engines. Trying to get the most out of the hardware available after the swap, establish a baseline, and modify further from there.
I'm just wondering which sensors TPS etc will need to be changed out from the stock LT1 sensors.
I just spent my boatload of cash on the truck and just want to do some simple 'cheap' upgrades when I have it all out of the car. then I can try it on my other Vortec engines. Trying to get the most out of the hardware available after the swap, establish a baseline, and modify further from there.
If you ever want to go coil on plug later while keeping the dizzy I can help you do that, just pm me.
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sales@bp-automotive.com
www.bp-automotive.com
1-888-467-4491
Standalone LS Swap Harnesses IN STOCK!
LSX, LTX Stand alone swap harnesses. S10 LSX conversion PLUG AND PLAY harnesses, 24x conversion PLUG AND PLAY harnesses. LT1 to LSX PLUG AND PLAY Harnesses.
sales@bp-automotive.com
www.bp-automotive.com
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