Couple Hotcam Questions
Bumping this up with a few more questions. My hotcam kit should be at my door when I get home. Ordering the last few things very soon (gaskets, tune, etc.) Anyways, I have read about a new timing chain, pushrods, and an lt4 knock sensor. Are these completely necessary with just the hotcam? I don't plan on spinning the motor crazy high. Probably just to 6000-6100 like normal.
Launching!
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 253
Likes: 0
From: CenTex
No they aren't completely necessary. Some people will say they are, but thats just for their own piece of mind. When I had the cc503, the only thing I upgraded were the springs and injectors. Kept the stock pushrods, timing chain, lifters, etc. and I also had le1 heads with no problems
I have a cc502 in my car and they are pretty similar cams. I had a lot of problems with the car at lights you would have to hold the brakes down pretty hard and when i went to give it gas it would occasionally stubble and the some times the rpms would randomly drop while at the lights.
I screwed around thinking the IAC was bad and soon as I installed the high stall converter I was fine. It very well may have been a tunning issue I am not sure. I had madz28 (Ion)do the tune on the car. the first one he did before the cam was spot on. This time the car seemed to have a lack of power. I also noticed a lot of carbon when I pulled the heads but the car has only idled on and off for about 10-15 minutes for the last year.
My advice dont cheap out. I cheaped out and bought cheap springs and broke a spring almost tore the whole engine up I got lucky and just had the heads redone and new springs installed.
I screwed around thinking the IAC was bad and soon as I installed the high stall converter I was fine. It very well may have been a tunning issue I am not sure. I had madz28 (Ion)do the tune on the car. the first one he did before the cam was spot on. This time the car seemed to have a lack of power. I also noticed a lot of carbon when I pulled the heads but the car has only idled on and off for about 10-15 minutes for the last year.
My advice dont cheap out. I cheaped out and bought cheap springs and broke a spring almost tore the whole engine up I got lucky and just had the heads redone and new springs installed.
Bumping this up with a few more questions. My hotcam kit should be at my door when I get home. Ordering the last few things very soon (gaskets, tune, etc.) Anyways, I have read about a new timing chain, pushrods, and an lt4 knock sensor. Are these completely necessary with just the hotcam? I don't plan on spinning the motor crazy high. Probably just to 6000-6100 like normal.
Hot cam is probably going to want more than 6100rpm for best performance, sure it will peak by then but for peak performance you shift well past peak HP so you use the whole top of the curve and don't fall below peak torque after the shift.
So if you are serious about 6000-6100 call for a return slip for the cam kit.
If you want to keep it under 6100 then a stall INSTEAD of a cam would be a much better mod.
Modding a car gets a lot more expensive when you fail to understand or listen to those who have been there done that. The cheapest way to do things is RIGHT
Modding a car gets a lot more expensive when you fail to understand or listen to those who have been there done that. The cheapest way to do things is RIGHT
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My bone stock 120,000 mile '95 Camaro test mule ran quickest at the track shifting it at 6000.
Stock converter & gears with the "hot" cam, shifting it too soon to take advantage of the usable power curve could possibly be slower at the track than a tuned stocker. The loss of low end with stock gears & converter along with not using the new higher RPM power could easily be a performance loss.
Might sound fast idling through the local Sonic.....
Stock converter & gears with the "hot" cam, shifting it too soon to take advantage of the usable power curve could possibly be slower at the track than a tuned stocker. The loss of low end with stock gears & converter along with not using the new higher RPM power could easily be a performance loss.
Might sound fast idling through the local Sonic.....
You will be fine shifting the hotcam at 6K. I picked up almost 6.5 mph at the track just adding the cam, shifting at 6-6100. I saw no mph improvement shifting at 6200. You'll love that cam, best mod I made.
Check this out:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/16179878-post476.html
Check this out:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/16179878-post476.html
You need to look at the RPM it drops to at shifts. That also depends on the converter. Unless you have a stick car. :-)
TECH Regular
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 442
Likes: 3
From: Raleigh, NC
Ed and company are correct.
From what I've seen, the hotcam and most similar grinds usually peak at about 6000 or 6100 with stock heads and correct springs, which means a M6 car is usually going to want to be shifted about 200-300 rpm above that. Individual cars can and will vary, though.
When I was cam only I ran an XE cam a bit bigger than the hotcam. It peaked at 6000-6100, I shifted at 6300-6400, and the pill was at 6500. If it's in good shape the stock bottom is fine being turned to that rpm. Many people have spun stock bottoms to 6600+on a regular basis with bigger cams and/or ported heads and many of those have been sprayed on top of that.
Yea some have come apart, but the vast majority of cases where everything was in good shape they were fine.
FWIW my current setup is basically ported heads and cam on a stock bottom with 109k miles. The rev limiter is at 6800, I shift it at 6400-6500 on the stock tach. It's not a daily driver though and I don't lean on it like that on a constant basis on the street. Neither the driveline of the car nor my own driving record could withstand that.
From what I've seen, the hotcam and most similar grinds usually peak at about 6000 or 6100 with stock heads and correct springs, which means a M6 car is usually going to want to be shifted about 200-300 rpm above that. Individual cars can and will vary, though.
When I was cam only I ran an XE cam a bit bigger than the hotcam. It peaked at 6000-6100, I shifted at 6300-6400, and the pill was at 6500. If it's in good shape the stock bottom is fine being turned to that rpm. Many people have spun stock bottoms to 6600+on a regular basis with bigger cams and/or ported heads and many of those have been sprayed on top of that.
Yea some have come apart, but the vast majority of cases where everything was in good shape they were fine.
FWIW my current setup is basically ported heads and cam on a stock bottom with 109k miles. The rev limiter is at 6800, I shift it at 6400-6500 on the stock tach. It's not a daily driver though and I don't lean on it like that on a constant basis on the street. Neither the driveline of the car nor my own driving record could withstand that.
Yeah, never raced so don't know anything about that. LOL
Torque is what I was talking about when I mentioned the RPM it drops to at shifts. At or just above the torque peak RPM. Wider ratio spreads require higher shift RPM to hit that. If you give a **** at all about going fast you do NOT shift at the hp peak RPM. Figured everybody knew that by now.
Torque is what I was talking about when I mentioned the RPM it drops to at shifts. At or just above the torque peak RPM. Wider ratio spreads require higher shift RPM to hit that. If you give a **** at all about going fast you do NOT shift at the hp peak RPM. Figured everybody knew that by now.
You will be fine shifting the hotcam at 6K. I picked up almost 6.5 mph at the track just adding the cam, shifting at 6-6100. I saw no mph improvement shifting at 6200. You'll love that cam, best mod I made.
Check this out:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/16179878-post476.html
Check this out:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/16179878-post476.html
Many of us have said over and over the supplied springs are marginal. Then you ran it with 1.5 rockers that might not even measure 1.5 which about nobody else bothers with.
Were you shift points based on the known to be inaccurate factory tach?
Then ran slower than I had with my much larger car and a much smaller ZZ4 cam and you want to pretend this is great? Same track too.
Put 1.6s and decent springs on the HOT cam and it wants more than 6100rpm.
Far as those others talking shift point are you talking commanded by the pcm for an A4 or what rpm the engine actually sees, these are VERY different numbers there is several hundred rpm worth of rise before the shift actually happens.
I could make a HOT cam peak at 5000rpm if I wanted to screw with the supporting mods and tune enough to handicap it that bad, or just used a tach that was way the hell off.
A well setup valvetrain will run faster being rev'ed well past peak. Like I said you want to use the whole top of the power curve, not just the uphill slope. If you HP tumbles fast and hard after peak causing you to shift near peak to be fastest that is a symptom of valve control issues.
^^^ I have a shift light that I shift by not the factory tach. I am quite happy with the performace of my car, that's great you ran faster.
Swapped out the LT4 springs for some PAC1212x springs a while ago.
Swapped out the LT4 springs for some PAC1212x springs a while ago.
Last edited by guppymech; Jul 10, 2014 at 07:58 PM.