Lunati Bootlegger
11-09-2014, 01:43 PM
#1
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Lunati Bootlegger I'm redoing my camaro for my senior project. I was originally going to go with the cc503, but I wouldn't mind trying something else either. These Bootlegger cams seem to have just hit the shelves in places. Anybody have any experience with them on an lt1 camaro? Im thinking this cam right here. I will be running stock heads.
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...oducts_id=6714
http://www.ws6project.com/user_stor/...oducts_id=6714
11-09-2014, 01:52 PM
#2
Forms stroker maybe, for a 355 maybe if prepared to look at computer system going past 7000rpm, for a 350, he'll no.
Looks like they asked Comp to spec the rpm range.
The LT1 often gets wrong cam rpm range specs from cam companies because they just apply gen 1 rpm ranges to LT1 stuff. To put it in perspective many of us run cams in the 228degree intake range to 7000rpm peak hp occurring about 6500.
The 2800-6000rpm range listed is plain wrong.
Looks like they asked Comp to spec the rpm range.
The LT1 often gets wrong cam rpm range specs from cam companies because they just apply gen 1 rpm ranges to LT1 stuff. To put it in perspective many of us run cams in the 228degree intake range to 7000rpm peak hp occurring about 6500.
The 2800-6000rpm range listed is plain wrong.
11-09-2014, 02:02 PM
#3
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Forms stroker maybe, for a 355 maybe if prepared to look at computer system going past 7000rpm, for a 350, he'll no.
Looks like they asked Comp to spec the rpm range.
The LT1 often gets wrong cam rpm range specs from cam companies because they just apply gen 1 rpm ranges to LT1 stuff. To put it in perspective many of us run cams in the 228degree intake range to 7000rpm peak hp occurring about 6500.
The 2800-6000rpm range listed is plain wrong.
Looks like they asked Comp to spec the rpm range.
The LT1 often gets wrong cam rpm range specs from cam companies because they just apply gen 1 rpm ranges to LT1 stuff. To put it in perspective many of us run cams in the 228degree intake range to 7000rpm peak hp occurring about 6500.
The 2800-6000rpm range listed is plain wrong.
11-09-2014, 04:51 PM
#4
If emission are of no concern and the M6 is backed up with at least 3.73 preferably 4.10 the smaller bootlegger sounds good, and understand that even with unported heads it is going to need every bit of 6400rpm.
The 503 would have an emissions advantage.
The 503 would have an emissions advantage.
11-09-2014, 08:32 PM
#5
Launching!
Doesnt sound much different than the Thumpr series of cams just different name perhaps Im mistaken.
I dont think Harold Brookshire designed those
Maybe Im getting old cams these days dont even go by grind #s or families of cams its some goofy name like a wrestler would name himself or something.
Mauler, street cold killa, canker sore blaster etc
Seems to sell them though.
I dont think Harold Brookshire designed those
Maybe Im getting old cams these days dont even go by grind #s or families of cams its some goofy name like a wrestler would name himself or something.
Mauler, street cold killa, canker sore blaster etc
Seems to sell them though.
11-09-2014, 08:46 PM
#6
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The car will end up with 4.10 gears. Would the cc503 be better with the un ported heads? I don't feel like destroying the engine revving it to 6000 rpm + just to get the full potential of the cam.
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11-10-2014, 12:56 AM
#8
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Your engine with stock heads and that Bootlegger cam may even be slower than the comp 503. Stock LT1 heads are low lift heads and over half inch intake lift gains absolutely nothing on a stock head. The cam mfrs know this and u will see nearly all the LT1 cams on the shelf have less than 0.5" intake lift. Even that smallest Bootlegger cam with 276/300 duration, 108 LSA has huge amounts of overlap and so little vacuum it wont run any accessories. And until u install a tune and the 4.11 gears low rpm driving would feel like a 3 legged buffalo.
CC503 (lift, duration, lobe separation) is at the very edge of street use manners in a fairly stock car - mild torque converter and moderate gearing. And plenty of mail order tunes for that cam in an LT1 will make life much easier to use it. My 2 cents for a young'n looking to cam his first sb chevy go with what the major cam mfrs have designed for your application - dont try to out smart what the companies have developed with years of experience. U can easily end up with a garage potato for a car. And u really cant expect future mods that maybe needed with a larger cam will happen - to many left turns in life.
If u want a cam with a little more intensity and lift under the curve try Isky LT1 cams - called Isky cams rather than esoteric hyper blaberated incognito names.
CC503 (lift, duration, lobe separation) is at the very edge of street use manners in a fairly stock car - mild torque converter and moderate gearing. And plenty of mail order tunes for that cam in an LT1 will make life much easier to use it. My 2 cents for a young'n looking to cam his first sb chevy go with what the major cam mfrs have designed for your application - dont try to out smart what the companies have developed with years of experience. U can easily end up with a garage potato for a car. And u really cant expect future mods that maybe needed with a larger cam will happen - to many left turns in life.
If u want a cam with a little more intensity and lift under the curve try Isky LT1 cams - called Isky cams rather than esoteric hyper blaberated incognito names.
11-10-2014, 08:14 AM
#10
That cam is way too big for a stock shortblock. Even a 226/234 needs to be revved to 7000 to get max power out of it. Revving a motor to the peak hp and shifting then is not the fastest way to the end of the track, you should be shifting WAY past your peak so you stay in peak hp/torque for the longest period of time. Something that peaks at 6400 should be taken to 7000 for best performance. With a stock bottom end, you cant spin past 6400 before your rod bolts would say NOPE. Something closer to a 224/230 would be best for a stock bottom end, like a 503 or custom grind around the same size. Even the stock cam needs to be spun to 6300 for best performance.
And I dont like the name of that cam line. A true moonshine bootlegger would NOT want a cam that sounded anything but stock. The whole point of the bootleggers was to keep a car looking and sounding stock, and be able to run from the cops, not a cop magnet with a trunk full of shine.
And I dont like the name of that cam line. A true moonshine bootlegger would NOT want a cam that sounded anything but stock. The whole point of the bootleggers was to keep a car looking and sounding stock, and be able to run from the cops, not a cop magnet with a trunk full of shine.
11-10-2014, 11:13 AM
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OP the crapmanager is a psychotic pathological lier. Just wait until he tells u to "loft" your vlvs with weak springs just because he read an article where NASCAR uses it. Now he thinks he can advise others here to do it though he never has himself.
11-10-2014, 02:10 PM
#13
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Like has been said, with stock heads keep the intake duration around 225 or less.
That Lunati cam would not be a good choice for a stock-headed motor.
The Comp XE line has several cams that have been proven to work well with stock LT1 heads or in stock engines for years. Pick one and go with that.
That Lunati cam would not be a good choice for a stock-headed motor.
The Comp XE line has several cams that have been proven to work well with stock LT1 heads or in stock engines for years. Pick one and go with that.
11-10-2014, 04:40 PM
#15
6000rpm won't destroy a stock long block, you'll be fine to 6400, the SA rockers will become shaky at 6300, and the rod bolts will call it quits at 6600 after too long. I've been shifting a stock cam/stock long block at 6300 for over 200 passes no issues. The stock cam peaks around 5000, but for best 1/4 mile times need shifted at 6300. Even a hot cam will run fastest at 6500 or higher.
11-10-2014, 06:06 PM
#16
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6000rpm won't destroy a stock long block, you'll be fine to 6400, the SA rockers will become shaky at 6300, and the rod bolts will call it quits at 6600 after too long. I've been shifting a stock cam/stock long block at 6300 for over 200 passes no issues. The stock cam peaks around 5000, but for best 1/4 mile times need shifted at 6300. Even a hot cam will run fastest at 6500 or higher.
.
11-10-2014, 06:49 PM
#17
I blew one up turning 6800rpm, but also had a fueling issue and detonated it some.
With good tuning a surprising number of folks turn 6800-7000, 6500 is just generally accepted as safer.
Some folks don't seem to grasp that to properly use the power curve you rev well beyond peak, usually at least 400rpm. Also some folks will quote programmed shift point when the engine will go a couple hundred rpm higher while completing the shift.
With good tuning a surprising number of folks turn 6800-7000, 6500 is just generally accepted as safer.
Some folks don't seem to grasp that to properly use the power curve you rev well beyond peak, usually at least 400rpm. Also some folks will quote programmed shift point when the engine will go a couple hundred rpm higher while completing the shift.
Last edited by 96capricemgr; 11-10-2014 at 06:56 PM.
11-10-2014, 07:01 PM
#18
TECH Addict
SA RR are good to 7K RPMs IF the springs are correct to the valve train. NSA RR are less likely to fall off the spring if you do get float, but NEITHER will float at the same RPMs if the springs are the right ones.
The cam IS too big for your heads. You WILL see an increase in power (peak), but no where near what that cam can do with the right supporting mods (head work, etc.).
Those cams have really really lazy exhaust lobes, really lazy. The Intake lobes are ehh, meh, alright. The overlap on the smaller cam is 6° more overlap than my cam (that I need to rev to 7K). The bigger one has 14° more overlap.
The more overlap, the more RPMs you need to get air intake velocities up (or more cubes). They will need good long tube headers, ported heads, and re-worked TB and intake manifold to get their full effect. Advancing the cam can move the power band back down (104 ICL gives you 4° advance).
As far as what Cardo0 is saying, I run a moderately large cam (see sig for specs) on a M6 with 3.42 rear gears and routinely cruise around under 1500rpms. No bucking or lugging. There's a lot going on here aside from just camshaft characteristics. How the engine is matched to the cam and how well the tune is makes a huge difference.
The CC503 has a small amount of overlap and is 4° advanced also, this will increase your DCR allowing you to run a lower SCR and gain power under peak with less RPMs because less air velocities are required to achieve more BMEP. It would work better with stock heads than the larger cams because of that.
The cam IS too big for your heads. You WILL see an increase in power (peak), but no where near what that cam can do with the right supporting mods (head work, etc.).
Those cams have really really lazy exhaust lobes, really lazy. The Intake lobes are ehh, meh, alright. The overlap on the smaller cam is 6° more overlap than my cam (that I need to rev to 7K). The bigger one has 14° more overlap.
The more overlap, the more RPMs you need to get air intake velocities up (or more cubes). They will need good long tube headers, ported heads, and re-worked TB and intake manifold to get their full effect. Advancing the cam can move the power band back down (104 ICL gives you 4° advance).
As far as what Cardo0 is saying, I run a moderately large cam (see sig for specs) on a M6 with 3.42 rear gears and routinely cruise around under 1500rpms. No bucking or lugging. There's a lot going on here aside from just camshaft characteristics. How the engine is matched to the cam and how well the tune is makes a huge difference.
The CC503 has a small amount of overlap and is 4° advanced also, this will increase your DCR allowing you to run a lower SCR and gain power under peak with less RPMs because less air velocities are required to achieve more BMEP. It would work better with stock heads than the larger cams because of that.
Last edited by hrcslam; 11-11-2014 at 09:40 PM.