LT1-LT4 Modifications 1993-97 Gen II Small Block V8

Another Water Pump Thread...

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Old Jul 3, 2015 | 01:01 PM
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Talking Another Water Pump Thread...

So, my oil leaks are back! i feel like bufmatmuslepants at this point because my car is marking its territory everywhere, I've changed the water pump/opti seals with the felpro kit like 3 times now and they come back after 4-6 months. SO I am cracking down and letting a professional mechanic who is a very long family friend fix them... which hurts my ego but I'm tired of these leaks. I have the original water pump from the factory with 160k miles on it, so as preventive maintenance I'm gonna go ahead and replace it. I'm just a kid, 17 years old and aint got to much cash at the moment so i was wandering if someone has a used MECHANICAL water pump with fairly low miles, and for fairly cheap of course... If you have one PM me! No EWP for me, hopefully this wont cause some huge shitshow like in HRC's thread... But then again it is the tech soo....
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Old Jul 3, 2015 | 04:25 PM
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Default Another Water Pump Thread...

I hope you don't think an EWP is a bad choice for you. It'll likely be a great choice for you as it'll eliminate a source of possible leakage on both the water pump and timing cover.

I see money is an issue, so a mech unit will be cheaper at this point. O'Reilly auto parts has one for about $60 with a 1 year warranty. You could try rock auto too.
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Old Jul 3, 2015 | 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by hrcslam
I hope you don't think an EWP is a bad choice for you. It'll likely be a great choice for you as it'll eliminate a source of possible leakage on both the water pump and timing cover.

I see money is an issue, so a mech unit will be cheaper at this point. O'Reilly auto parts has one for about $60 with a 1 year warranty. You could try rock auto too.
How so would it eliminate possible leakage? A lot of people have told me this but i haven't looked into it much... I have an EWP but im skeptical of using it, my car sees many auto-x/road course events.. In fact I'll be at a road course on the 18th! Well, with these leaks I won't be because the tech inspection is way more serious at road courses... At least it's been that way for me.
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Old Jul 3, 2015 | 05:31 PM
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Did you make sure to install the waterpump seal with the sharpie marker special tool so it doesn't rip during install? it rips super easy if your not careful while your putting it on so that could be the cause
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Old Jul 3, 2015 | 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Badazz 97 TA
Did you make sure to install the waterpump seal with the sharpie marker special tool so it doesn't rip during install? it rips super easy if your not careful while your putting it on so that could be the cause
Sure did! I don't understand how it'll hold for a few months of so then start leaking again. It's not like a few hours, days or weeks. That last time I changed them was in early March and they started back yesterday
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Old Jul 3, 2015 | 07:56 PM
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Default Another Water Pump Thread...

Originally Posted by VoyagerCamaro
How so would it eliminate possible leakage? A lot of people have told me this but i haven't looked into it much... I have an EWP but im skeptical of using it, my car sees many auto-x/road course events.. In fact I'll be at a road course on the 18th! Well, with these leaks I won't be because the tech inspection is way more serious at road courses... At least it's been that way for me.
Sorry, didn't realize you were road racing. Yeah no EWP. Have you checked the drive unit coming through the timing cover for play?
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Old Jul 3, 2015 | 08:11 PM
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Just a thought..... maybe you have excessive crank case pressure from the PCV, or breathers, not being able to do its job? Does your crank hub and/or water pump drive have grooves worn into them?

FWIW the electric water pump can cut down on potential oil leaks by allowing you to remove the water pump drive and seal the hole it leaves in the timing cover.
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Old Jul 3, 2015 | 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by hrcslam
Sorry, didn't realize you were road racing. Yeah no EWP. Have you checked the drive unit coming through the timing cover for play?
Yeah it gets pretty hardcore. I had such a problem with my power steering fluid getting
heated up and boiling over I had to buy a 24" permacool inline tranny cooler and mount it above
the wind shroud so I wouldn't kill my pump! I have checked it for play, it seems fine to me. meh, I'm stumped. I'm guessing it may be the PCV valve or excessive crank case pressure?
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Old Jul 3, 2015 | 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by stevo9389
Just a thought..... maybe you have excessive crank case pressure from the PCV, or breathers, not being able to do its job? Does your crank hub and/or water pump drive have grooves worn into them?

FWIW the electric water pump can cut down on potential oil leaks by allowing you to remove the water pump drive and seal the hole it leaves in the timing cover.
I had thought about that, I need
to check it when I get time. That is a strong possibly being my motor is on all stock internals etc. only thing replaced when I got it was battery and alternator. Other than that, stock to the paper filter. I have checked for play, it seems to be fine.
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Old Jul 3, 2015 | 11:54 PM
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I've got one in my garage with real low miles.....I bought it as a brand new replacement on my old cam only setup a few years ago when I rebuilt the original engine that didn't last too long after a missed shift/stock rod bolt issue ...before I upgraded to a forged 383 that came with the vastly superior EWP It's only been used 5-6K miles....you can take it if you drive to Charlotte for $25....I'm not shipping a cheap used water pump lol. EWP is the way to go though...all the kids are doing it these days My 383 has the little (non HD) 43 GPH Meiziere and it does the job just fine
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Old Jul 4, 2015 | 11:05 AM
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OP

what seal is leaking. WP drive, Opti or Crank

assume you installed the WP drive & Opti seals dry...
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Old Jul 4, 2015 | 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by ahritchie
I've got one in my garage with real low miles.....I bought it as a brand new replacement on my old cam only setup a few years ago when I rebuilt the original engine that didn't last too long after a missed shift/stock rod bolt issue ...before I upgraded to a forged 383 that came with the vastly superior EWP It's only been used 5-6K miles....you can take it if you drive to Charlotte for $25....I'm not shipping a cheap used water pump lol. EWP is the way to go though...all the kids are doing it these days My 383 has the little (non HD) 43 GPH Meiziere and it does the job just fine
Yes I will drive to Charlotte to get it, but only if you fire up Barney the purple dinosaur and let me hear that 383 run! PM me so we can talk a date for meet up?? My car is a road course/auto x car, gotta stick with mechanical! PS happy Murca' day!
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Old Jul 4, 2015 | 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ******
OP

what seal is leaking. WP drive, Opti or Crank

assume you installed the WP drive & Opti seals dry...
Usually it's the opti, but this time I think it's both the WP drive and opti and no, I made sure and put some oil on it and around the drive so it'd be "easy" to put on and hopefully not rip.
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Old Jul 4, 2015 | 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by VoyagerCamaro
Usually it's the opti, but this time I think it's both the WP drive and opti and no, I made sure and put some oil on it and around the drive so it'd be "easy" to put on and hopefully not rip.
the Opti & WP seals are PTFE seals and want to be installed "dry"...meaning you don't grease/oil them when installing. Crank seal you can grease or oil on install. There is a insert instruction in the FelPro TC gasket kit saying this...

WP drive seal is the most common to leak typically due to install method folding inner seal lip over or tearing it

confirm you have no excessive "wobble/play" in the WP drive gear spline and that you have new "O" rings on both WP drive spline & WP spline and the splines are greased.

while there are forms of home made tools (socket or marker pen body), buy one of these tools. they show up on ebay for around $20 to install the WP drive seal
Attached Thumbnails Another Water Pump Thread...-wp-drive-seal-tool-1.jpg   Another Water Pump Thread...-wp-drive-seal-tool-2.jpg   Another Water Pump Thread...-wp-drive-seal.jpg  
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Old Jul 6, 2015 | 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by stevo9389
Just a thought..... maybe you have excessive crank case pressure from the PCV, or breathers, not being able to do its job? Does your crank hub and/or water pump drive have grooves worn into them?

FWIW the electric water pump can cut down on potential oil leaks by allowing you to remove the water pump drive and seal the hole it leaves in the timing cover.
Ive been wondering if this could be something to do with my leak problems. My hose from the valve cover to the TB ripped, so I put a cap on the TB and a breather on the valve cover, but Im wondering if not having that little bit of vacuum from the TB pulling from the valve cover is what caused my leak to get so much worse. I threw away/lost the valve cover piece otherwise I would have tried heater hose, the other culprit could be time, the car sat being used very little for 6 years.

I posted a video in my thread of the play in my waterpump drive, but after comparing it to the play in my other motor, which didnt leak badly at all, they are the same.
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Old Jul 6, 2015 | 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by bufmatmuslepants
Ive been wondering if this could be something to do with my leak problems. My hose from the valve cover to the TB ripped, so I put a cap on the TB and a breather on the valve cover, but Im wondering if not having that little bit of vacuum from the TB pulling from the valve cover is what caused my leak to get so much worse. I threw away/lost the valve cover piece otherwise I would have tried heater hose, the other culprit could be time, the car sat being used very little for 6 years.

I posted a video in my thread of the play in my waterpump drive, but after comparing it to the play in my other motor, which didnt leak badly at all, they are the same.
I am not sure if you are trolling me but the hose on the passenger side valve cover to the TB is to allow fresh air from the to the crank case while the intake vacuum pulls the air from the lifter valley through the PCV. If anything, you have a monster vacuum leak assuming the PCV is also not plugged.
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Old Jul 6, 2015 | 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by VoyagerCamaro
Yes I will drive to Charlotte to get it, but only if you fire up Barney the purple dinosaur and let me hear that 383 run! PM me so we can talk a date for meet up?? My car is a road course/auto x car, gotta stick with mechanical! PS happy Murca' day!
I suppose that could be arranged...PM sent!
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Old Jul 6, 2015 | 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by stevo9389
I am not sure if you are trolling me but the hose on the passenger side valve cover to the TB is to allow fresh air from the to the crank case while the intake vacuum pulls the air from the lifter valley through the PCV. If anything, you have a monster vacuum leak assuming the PCV is also not plugged.
Not trolling, just worded poorly. The PCV is still there, it now draws from atmosphere through the breather instead of through the TB, TB is plugged. I guess my question is really does the hose the valvecover hold a negative pressure since its from a vacuum source on the TB, or now that it is at atmosphere with the breather, could that exacerbate leaky gaskets? aka, differential between negative from the TB vs differential between atmospheric.
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Old Jul 6, 2015 | 11:56 AM
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Stick with a mechanical pump. Your tow truck driver will hate you but your alternator will love you!
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Old Jul 6, 2015 | 01:03 PM
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Default Another Water Pump Thread...

Originally Posted by sweetbmxrider
Stick with a mechanical pump. Your tow truck driver will hate you but your alternator will love you!
That, and you won't over heat on that road course either. ........

I see you trolling, you hatin',.......
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