Speed Density

iTrader: (38)

Here is my question. Wich heads are the best bang for the buck? I hear AFRs flow numbers out perform any other Heads. Im hearing that LE heads are sick, and some other people are sayin you get the same performance out ported LT1 heads. Im just a little curious as to see how they all compare to each other.

zigroid

iTrader: (22)

Ai's LT1 casting heads have gone low 10s at 130+ mph.

yes thats LT1 casting with an LT1 intake. they put the same CNC work on all their heads.

I have lloyd's LE3 package and, even though im constantly fixing problems with my car, I am very impressed. I'll be in the 11s next year

Vendetta

LE packages are ported stock LT1 heads

blkchevyz

ported stock heads will be the best bang for the buck.

AFR would be good if you want to spend some cash for the heads, then get them ported.

but it all depends on how far you are going to go...


fyi i had cylinder head specialties do my lt1 heads and they flow 280 at 600 and 282 at 650 on the intake


if i would do it all over i would probably buy some AFR's delt with them stock for awhile then spent the cash on getting them ported. dont get me wrong my heads are more then good enough for me right now, and probably will be for a while but i still would like to have more room for improvement.

LTSpeed

Sorry, I don't believe it. There's no way AI's and Lloyd's packages are that different. Mid 11's to low 10's is a huge power difference in identical cars. You can't be talking apples to apples.

96capricemgr

iTrader: (1)

Car has way to much to do with that stuff to compare. One b-body is going low 12s with boltons low 11s in the same car on spray. Does not mean he is making more power than the next guy he has just done everything else he possibly can to go fast. Lightening, suspension, vacuum pump for the crankcase, dyno tuning, etc.. He goes fast with the package not the power a lot of cars make a lot more power and are much slower. I do believe AI can get some more power than Lloyd just not over a second worth with the same displacement and similar car/conditions, as expected they also charge more for that extra power, Lloyds popularity stems from the combination of performance and reasonable price, not necessarily all out performance. He offers a great value which isn't always the absolute max power.

zigroid

iTrader: (22)

you cant go wrong with either one. I love my LE heads and I would go back to lloyd if I did another car or setup. Ai has dropped their prices some also. "$1095 + Core* - Complete, Assembled, with camshaft & Ready to Bolt-On." thats what Ai has for their street casting.

http://img120.exs.cx/img120/673/NAP8-21.jpg
thats rick abare's car. 10.34 @ 130. stock LT1 CNC ported heads and a ported LT1 intake. 383 bottom end.

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showt...ght=Rick+Abare


theres more stuff on Ai's website... http://www.advancedinduction.com/

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

I believe that Rick has since been a 10.14 with the same setup. There can be a hell of a difference between two sets of stock ported heads. What is the fastest LE H&C or stroker for that matter. I havn't seen one within .8 or .9 tenths of mine. It is very important to compare results. LE may have a great product, I just havn't seen enough #s yet.

zigroid

iTrader: (22)

I think most people who buy from lloyd go LE1 or LE2 not wanting an all out drag car but do want cheap affordable performance.

I remember one dude hit 440+ rwhp with LE2 heads and a GTP cam on a 385. he'd probably come closer to you than others.
my best time is a 12.6 @ 109 but im still working out alot of bugs. I'll be in the 11s next year though! dont think I'll ever hit 10s like you though that is MOVIN man! my car has completely stock suspension, heavy wheels, no weight reduction besides spare and jack. not to mention my fat 220+ lb ***. oh yeah and a stock 10 bolt so after I get the power where it needs to be I'll address some of that. I hate being a poor college student!


yeah, but the head on rick abare's car is CNC ported. the same head is offered to anyone that has the money to pay for it.

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

Rick's car is also a drag car, not a street car. That is totally apples to oranges. I believe a car's setup has alot to do with it. Lloyd's packages do make good power, is it the most possible? Maybe not, but it is def. worth the money, and with the right suspension, etc...you can have a very mean car. Quickshot, i refuse to get into this again...because I don't see point of it. Your car is def the exception. Not trying to be a dick in any way, but that same comparison that you have seen any of LE packages run with .8-.9 of your car. I have yet to see or hear about any of Joe O/? he works with packages go as fast as yours with a stock bottom end....now I am not throwing stones, just trying to get you to see it from my point of view. Also I don't see how you can say that about LE's packages anyways, when as pointed out b4. Kryckter's car was a 355, M6, and ran 11.7...this was with a 1.7 60ft I believe. With a 60 ft like your getting, and a badass auto he would have been close. Once again, all speculation. This was with a small cam, and LE1 heads. I think anyones car/package can be fast with the right tuning, suspension, drivetrain...but I don't see people going about it that way. Your car flat out rips man. Zigroid your car is very nice, and with the kinks worked out it should run good. Your Heads/cam seems to be the older ones, which are actually more comparable to LE2's since the valves are that size, and not 2.05/1.6 like the current LE3's. For all those Ai people, they do offer a fine product, is it superior...who knows, they will claim it is. There packages seemed to be alright priced, however from what I have seen there base companents that come with the packages are..well for lack of a better word, inferior...you have to pay a pretty good amount to upgrade to the parts LE offers in his packages, which greatly increases price. back on topic, best bang for the buck is Def. ported stock castings, if its a reasonable price, once the price is raised, and its costing you more you might as well start with an aftermarket casting.

Tireburnin

iTrader: (42)

You don't go fast by being cheap!

Do it right the first time.

Ai > LE

.

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

Well thats kinda my thoughts. Budget builds in my eyes use stock castings, and are reasonably priced. IMO once you start paying more than LE prices, which Ai def is...then you might as well upgrade to an aftermarket casting, because its no longer budget oriented. That is just my opinion, because the way I see it, you can go fast on some sort of budget. For the price I was quoted for a CNC ported LT1 heads, with 26918's, Ti retainers(setup like LE3), I can get a TFS head ported By LE with the same hardware as Ai's heads, that will outflow and outperform the Ai stock heads. I somewhat agree with you, but not entirely. Basically, to all you naysayers of Le packages....they can make lots of power, and can power very fast cars...this is not rocket science, it just takes time, tuning, patience, persistance to make a fast car, you must have everything perfected. As I said b4, Quickshots car is a prime example of this, as are some Ai cars, and LE cars. I don't see how you can deny this. I can name off quite a few cars that were out of the ordinary for track times, Hp numbers, etc....and after that I can name twice as many of each stated that performed less than desirably. So you can leg hump Ai, but this isn't about someone being better than another...its about combination, bang for your buck, etc. There are too many variables to accurately compare them. Basically it comes down to you, not the porter.

Quick96ss

iTrader: (7)

what do you think le1 heads with an lt4 hot cam would do?

Joe Overton

James 's car is misconceived alot I think of being a drag car...but thing is, its far from that.had to chuckle couple weeks ago when he let me make a pass in it, almost forgot how comfortable the factory leather seat was ..If the car was setup to what I call a race car it would be running 10.4 or better... this a street car through a y pipe full cat back exaust and daily driven.... I think alot of people have the I cant do it, so it must be a racecar attitude.. never say never.. I think back to 95' when cam head cars running 13.0 was fast.. look at progression since then.For the record here are 4 more ex. I've only done a handful of stuff for its just a hobby for me..

James Eddy 10.88
Mac Holmes 11.21
Gary Lawson 11.7 (3800+ Lbs)
Randy Etheridge 7.2 (1/8)

As far as heads in this thread, weigh your options ...compare performance and make a educated decision... All of them will do well ..

Admiral94

360-370 RWHP through a 6-speed. As for 1/4 mile times there are too many variables (tires, gears, auto or stick) to give you specific numbers, but mid 12's would be easily achievable.

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

Joe this is honestly the most clear cut post I have seen from you and I totally agree. I also think you would agree with me when I say it took some time, fine tuning, and perfecting the combo to make James' car run this way. As far as head choices I agree. I mean, i saw plenty of threads from people running the old Joe O/LE combos and they ran very well. I have seen LE/ BRE setups run well/ same as Ai setups. If you want your car to run good, then mod it. You can't expect to run a custom cam, ported heads, mail order tune and run bottom of the 11's first time out. Its progression, and working through the rough that makes a car fast. So many times I have seen and heard people say that its not a certain part that makes the car fast, its the combination...however with the porters/cam grinds offered everyone seems to throw this out the window. Its still the exact same concept, you can dyno 450rwhp, and your car could be slow...this has been proved over and over. Joe another thing I was seeing is that your a phenominal tuner, this could have a great deal of advantage with your setups for sure man. People should be so lucky to be able to have you tune there car, no matter what the H/C choice was. What tireburin said earlier rings true to me though, the mind set that you can't go fast on a budget is a misconception. The people I see going to Lloyd want big bang for the buck, he does offer that. The guys I see going to Ai/Joe O seem to be willing and able to spend the extra coin to get the rest of the setup done properly. Now I am sure this is not always the case, but i do see this alot. I said it b4, you cannot go wrong with any of these guys. When it comes to picking one, call around, do your research, and pick which fits YOUR budget the best....just be sure to include car setup as part of your budget. If more people went about it this way, there would surely be more fast cars from each vendor, and many less disappointing setups.

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

Definately takes alot of work! The funny part is that I went to Joe for help because I didn't have enough cash to keep up with my friends. Then my friends started asking for help after I opened up a can of whoopass around town

I did some thinking today and came up with an idea. My raceweight is about 3400. I'm going to bring 200lb of freeweight next time I go. I figure that should be a very fair comparison to a fully furnished car. I'm kinda interested in seeing what it does. Any guesses?

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

Well my opinion isn't really one. I was thinking about your question tho, and now I will think outloud. Where will you be putting this extra 200lbs? If the weight was in the rear, perhaps the cargo area...i actually think your ET may remain very close to what it will without. The reason I say this is that, the general rule is that with every 100lbs lost you will lose .10ET...so that would make your car approx. 2 tenths slower. But if I read your previous posts correctly, you are still having traction issues....so, i was thinking your 60ft could benefit from this...thus making up for the weight disadvantage. I am clearly not a professional here, so i could be looking at this all wrong. If so, feel free to correct me. Quickshot, what are you thinking it will do? Also, is your raceweight 3400 with you in the car, or without you?

Quickshotkimber

iTrader: (1)

It weighs 3400 with me in it. It used to weigh just under 3600 with the pass seat out and me in. I have removed alot of weight but added it as well with the roll bar, 12 bolt, and too many cheeseburgers I was planning on putting the weight in both of the rear seat compartments to keep it centered. The car hooked pretty good, just turned a few too many rpms through the traps.
I'm hoping for 11.0s at 122 with the extra weight. The car is really rough around the edges right now. The front end is way out of whack and the TC is a little tight. I still have power windows, leather power seat, radio, and stock brakes all the way around.

BigKap94z

iTrader: (47)

Good to know man. Def. let us know what happens. You sparked my curiosity. I love real world examples like this.