Will 1.6RR's benifit my stock '97 LT1?
05-05-2006, 11:17 AM
#22
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Originally Posted by zlover129
I still don't see how it could increase the duration, I mean even look at the graphic, its not holding any lift point any longer, it just peaks higher, i guess you could say that the duration at the old lift and higher would be increased, but that specific lift point wouldnt be held any longer.
05-05-2006, 11:36 AM
#23
I don't see it as a longer duration. Think of it this way. You have 1.5's, they are going to open and close a valve. Lets label that Duration A. You have 1.6's. Ther are going to open and close at Duration B. The 1.6's open and close, but they will have to travel an extra distance. So many thousanths of an inch. The bigger springs inturn will close the valve faster than the stock springs, that is one reason why it's recommended to use them. Also there is less resistance the valve pushes back on the 1.6 when it is on the closing side of the Cam. Therefore they are equal durations, other wise every company would give you a +Duration factor when you buy a Camshaft from them.
I am not some engine designer, but I bet some guy in a white coat at GM gets paid a **** load more than I do to figure out why it works the way I just explained it.
I am not some engine designer, but I bet some guy in a white coat at GM gets paid a **** load more than I do to figure out why it works the way I just explained it.
05-05-2006, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lt1 97 formula
1.6 rrs will increase your lift but you should do springs when you put on 1.6rrs. I have heard that 1.6rrs are good for around 10-15 rwhp? someone correct me if im wrong
05-05-2006, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by hammrman31
i agree. this is a mod i would like to do. i have heard that v springs on our cars lose tension over time,and it's a good idea to upgrade them. also some guys have done 1.7 rr on a stock cam, with good springs and have been pleased with the results.
05-05-2006, 12:59 PM
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Originally Posted by zlover129
I still don't see how it could increase the duration, I mean even look at the graphic, its not holding any lift point any longer, it just peaks higher, i guess you could say that the duration at the old lift and higher would be increased, but that specific lift point wouldnt be held any longer.
05-05-2006, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by the_merv
Either way, the **** works... lol
05-05-2006, 05:03 PM
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zlover- i just gave a simplified explanation for the kid. If you actually read my reply i specified "at a certain lift" and then I further explained what i meant.
It obviously doesn't increase the actual duration of the lobe and sure if you want to only look at 0 lift then you might have a problem with my explanation. I gave an example that at .400" lift with a taller rocker the valve will be open longer, which is in fact true.
there's no reason to nit pick something that was obviously over simplified due to the knowledge level in this thread. nobody posting in here before me knew the slightest thing about rockers and i didn't want to post something that wouldn't be useful to them so i tried to make it as easy to understand as possible. your problem is that you see the word "duration" and it is physically set in stone as a specification on a cam card. you can't change THAT number with a rocker, but as is easily seen from the graph you do in effect change duration at lifts above 0 which keep increasing all the way to peak. you pretty much completely understand it, but tripped up at the end.
edit- i messed up when i simplified my first post by putting a period after i said it increased duration. if you kept reading on it should have been clear, but i can see where the misunderstanding comes from. now just try and look at the bigger picture.
It obviously doesn't increase the actual duration of the lobe and sure if you want to only look at 0 lift then you might have a problem with my explanation. I gave an example that at .400" lift with a taller rocker the valve will be open longer, which is in fact true.
there's no reason to nit pick something that was obviously over simplified due to the knowledge level in this thread. nobody posting in here before me knew the slightest thing about rockers and i didn't want to post something that wouldn't be useful to them so i tried to make it as easy to understand as possible. your problem is that you see the word "duration" and it is physically set in stone as a specification on a cam card. you can't change THAT number with a rocker, but as is easily seen from the graph you do in effect change duration at lifts above 0 which keep increasing all the way to peak. you pretty much completely understand it, but tripped up at the end.
edit- i messed up when i simplified my first post by putting a period after i said it increased duration. if you kept reading on it should have been clear, but i can see where the misunderstanding comes from. now just try and look at the bigger picture.
05-05-2006, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by RoAdRaGe912
zlover- i just gave a simplified explanation for the kid. If you actually read my reply i specified "at a certain lift" and then I further explained what i meant.
It obviously doesn't increase the actual duration of the lobe and sure if you want to only look at 0 lift then you might have a problem with my explanation. I gave an example that at .400" lift with a taller rocker the valve will be open longer, which is in fact true.
there's no reason to nit pick something that was obviously over simplified due to the knowledge level in this thread. nobody posting in here before me knew the slightest thing about rockers and i didn't want to post something that wouldn't be useful to them so i tried to make it as easy to understand as possible. your problem is that you see the word "duration" and it is physically set in stone as a specification on a cam card. you can't change THAT number with a rocker, but as is easily seen from the graph you do in effect change duration at lifts above 0 which keep increasing all the way to peak. you pretty much completely understand it, but tripped up at the end.
edit- i messed up when i simplified my first post by putting a period after i said it increased duration. if you kept reading on it should have been clear, but i can see where the misunderstanding comes from. now just try and look at the bigger picture.
It obviously doesn't increase the actual duration of the lobe and sure if you want to only look at 0 lift then you might have a problem with my explanation. I gave an example that at .400" lift with a taller rocker the valve will be open longer, which is in fact true.
there's no reason to nit pick something that was obviously over simplified due to the knowledge level in this thread. nobody posting in here before me knew the slightest thing about rockers and i didn't want to post something that wouldn't be useful to them so i tried to make it as easy to understand as possible. your problem is that you see the word "duration" and it is physically set in stone as a specification on a cam card. you can't change THAT number with a rocker, but as is easily seen from the graph you do in effect change duration at lifts above 0 which keep increasing all the way to peak. you pretty much completely understand it, but tripped up at the end.
edit- i messed up when i simplified my first post by putting a period after i said it increased duration. if you kept reading on it should have been clear, but i can see where the misunderstanding comes from. now just try and look at the bigger picture.
05-05-2006, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by the_merv
I don't see it as a longer duration. Think of it this way. You have 1.5's, they are going to open and close a valve. Lets label that Duration A. You have 1.6's. Ther are going to open and close at Duration B. The 1.6's open and close, but they will have to travel an extra distance. So many thousanths of an inch. The bigger springs inturn will close the valve faster than the stock springs, that is one reason why it's recommended to use them. Also there is less resistance the valve pushes back on the 1.6 when it is on the closing side of the Cam. Therefore they are equal durations, other wise every company would give you a +Duration factor when you buy a Camshaft from them.
I am not some engine designer, but I bet some guy in a white coat at GM gets paid a **** load more than I do to figure out why it works the way I just explained it.
I am not some engine designer, but I bet some guy in a white coat at GM gets paid a **** load more than I do to figure out why it works the way I just explained it.
you are getting caught up in the same way that Zlover is. Both of you are correct, but you are only thinking about 0 lift.
05-05-2006, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by zlover129
Yea, I think we are thinking of the same thing now, I wasnt saying you were wrong i was just thinking that the duration at the lift itself wasnt increased but the valve would be open longer at OR GREATER then that lift. I think we are on the same page though, I do like the diagram you made and I want trying to say you were wrong. Just making sure what you meant by duration, but yea we got each other
good. like i said, you are right on track. If you had already posted in here before i did, then i would have made a better explanation.
05-06-2006, 05:55 PM
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if you get some self-aligning ones you should be fine. I've never messed with non self-aligning on any of the cars i've done, so i'm not sure if the guideplates are causing a clearance issue or what.
i posted in the other thread that i run a hotcam kit with full roller aluminum self-aligning 1.6s and did not have to make any modifications.
i posted in the other thread that i run a hotcam kit with full roller aluminum self-aligning 1.6s and did not have to make any modifications.
05-07-2006, 12:37 AM
#37
It DOES increase duration at all lift points. Basically the 1.6's keep the vavle open a little longer to get the extra lift. The extra amount of time the valve is open is what we call duration. It really only translates to like ~1 degree extra anyways it is not that much of an increase to do anything on a mild setup. On a big cam I think you would notice a difference in idle (barely noticeable) and a bigger increase in power.
