LT1 AFR's???
09-30-2006, 11:16 PM
#21
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Originally Posted by 96capricemgr
Iron LT1 heads are 64cc chambers as are Trickflows.
You would think people who own parts are a good source of info on the results of them but in my observation with expensive things like OH say AFR heads those who make the mistake will defend it to the grave never admitting it was a mistake. Not all guys who make expensive mistakes like that do so but many do, it takes a big man to say they were wrong.
You would think people who own parts are a good source of info on the results of them but in my observation with expensive things like OH say AFR heads those who make the mistake will defend it to the grave never admitting it was a mistake. Not all guys who make expensive mistakes like that do so but many do, it takes a big man to say they were wrong.
Last edited by streetwarrior96; 10-01-2006 at 12:40 AM.
10-01-2006, 01:04 AM
#22
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theres already a new line of AFR heads out. thats what he was talking bout. I thought they came out awhile ago, but maybe they keep getting pushed back.
I see where 96caprice is going with this.... bang for buck. why pay 500 more for the same results?
I see where 96caprice is going with this.... bang for buck. why pay 500 more for the same results?
10-01-2006, 06:44 AM
#23
I think it needs to be openly stated that the "new" AFRs are NOT an upgrade till PROVEN and upgrade. Folks are WAY too fast to ASSume new parts are an upgrade and this encourages the aftermarket to offer all the junk it dos like Granattelli and Jet and the like, hell look at the Edelbrock heads that need some light factory port work just to flow 16 CFM more than stock heads and with their cam makes less than 400 on the engine dyno where AI, LE and others can get you that at the wheels through an auto with ported stock castings. People need to open their eyes and stop relying on a companies reputation so much and start looking at results for the exact parts they want to run. 20 years ago the OEMs were turning out low power stuff that was easy for the aftermarket to improve upon, the HP wars started back up a decade ago and the OEMs stepped up in a big way leaving a lot less room for improvement so the companies that used to make the parts that were a big upgrade have a much harder job to do today and instead of doing it right many just rely on that old reputation or false claims of the wonders they can work with the computer.
10-01-2006, 09:17 AM
#25
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Not all AFR heads are bad. Honestly the larger (210's and larger) heads flow excellent numbers and make great power. It is the 195 and smaller AFR's that require quite a bit of work to get good numbers out of. That being said, I agree that there are a few companies out there that can port an LT4 head to rival a ported AFR 210, but a complete set of LT4's from those companies would be about equal in price to the AFR's as well. From all the research I've read and all the cars I've seen, AFR 210/215/220/227 are the best choice for a max effort street/strip LT1 stroker.
I have AFR 220's with 12:1 compression on a 383 solid roller with LT4 intake and standard 1 3/4" hooker long tubes and a 25x duration cam and the car consistently dyno'd 472-480rwhp SAE in a 6spd with a steel 60# mcleod street twin. I've only seen 2-3 LT4 headed cars dyno more and I've yet to see an LT1 head dyno more using the stock intake.
I will admit, shooting for 420rwhp, an LT1 head would be much more cost effective than using an AFR aftermarket casting. The problem is, many people will buy the AFR heads and then buy a 224/236 Comp off the shelf cam and wonder why their car isn't making the power. You can't blame poorly matched parts on the heads when you have a lack of performance.
I have AFR 220's with 12:1 compression on a 383 solid roller with LT4 intake and standard 1 3/4" hooker long tubes and a 25x duration cam and the car consistently dyno'd 472-480rwhp SAE in a 6spd with a steel 60# mcleod street twin. I've only seen 2-3 LT4 headed cars dyno more and I've yet to see an LT1 head dyno more using the stock intake.
I will admit, shooting for 420rwhp, an LT1 head would be much more cost effective than using an AFR aftermarket casting. The problem is, many people will buy the AFR heads and then buy a 224/236 Comp off the shelf cam and wonder why their car isn't making the power. You can't blame poorly matched parts on the heads when you have a lack of performance.
10-01-2006, 01:24 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by Turbo_6
I will admit, shooting for 420rwhp, an LT1 head would be much more cost effective than using an AFR aftermarket casting. The problem is, many people will buy the AFR heads and then buy a 224/236 Comp off the shelf cam and wonder why their car isn't making the power. You can't blame poorly matched parts on the heads when you have a lack of performance.
10-01-2006, 01:48 PM
#27
Originally Posted by Turbo_6
The problem is, many people will buy the AFR heads and then buy a 224/236 Comp off the shelf cam and wonder why their car isn't making the power. You can't blame poorly matched parts on the heads when you have a lack of performance.
10-01-2006, 07:29 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Turbo_6
Not all AFR heads are bad. Honestly the larger (210's and larger) heads flow excellent numbers and make great power. It is the 195 and smaller AFR's that require quite a bit of work to get good numbers out of. That being said, I agree that there are a few companies out there that can port an LT4 head to rival a ported AFR 210, but a complete set of LT4's from those companies would be about equal in price to the AFR's as well. From all the research I've read and all the cars I've seen, AFR 210/215/220/227 are the best choice for a max effort street/strip LT1 stroker.
I have AFR 220's with 12:1 compression on a 383 solid roller with LT4 intake and standard 1 3/4" hooker long tubes and a 25x duration cam and the car consistently dyno'd 472-480rwhp SAE in a 6spd with a steel 60# mcleod street twin. I've only seen 2-3 LT4 headed cars dyno more and I've yet to see an LT1 head dyno more using the stock intake.
I will admit, shooting for 420rwhp, an LT1 head would be much more cost effective than using an AFR aftermarket casting. The problem is, many people will buy the AFR heads and then buy a 224/236 Comp off the shelf cam and wonder why their car isn't making the power. You can't blame poorly matched parts on the heads when you have a lack of performance.
I have AFR 220's with 12:1 compression on a 383 solid roller with LT4 intake and standard 1 3/4" hooker long tubes and a 25x duration cam and the car consistently dyno'd 472-480rwhp SAE in a 6spd with a steel 60# mcleod street twin. I've only seen 2-3 LT4 headed cars dyno more and I've yet to see an LT1 head dyno more using the stock intake.
I will admit, shooting for 420rwhp, an LT1 head would be much more cost effective than using an AFR aftermarket casting. The problem is, many people will buy the AFR heads and then buy a 224/236 Comp off the shelf cam and wonder why their car isn't making the power. You can't blame poorly matched parts on the heads when you have a lack of performance.
How about Rick Abare's car dynoing 521rwhp through a 4L60E with just a street ported intake and 58mm TB mailorder tuning even, that was with AI 190cc heads which are LT1 castings, more recently it dynoed 520rwhp again through a 4000stall 4L60E 9" rear and just 11.7:1 compression, they believe there is a little left in it once some fuel issues are sorted out too. To make it even better it is still MAF even.
Guess all there is left to say is THANK YOU for proving MY POINT.
The LT1 stuff performs WONDERFULLY for those who actually try rather than blindly dimissing it as most who bother with AFRs have
.
10-01-2006, 08:57 PM
#30
Upon further thought I know of another 383 LT1 making 480rwhp through a 4L60E 12.25:1 compression on the home built stoker with owner ported LT1 heads and intake, 58mm TB, 4200 stall, cam is 242/250.
Like I said those who bother to try the LT1 castings do quite well.
Here are the dirty details on Rick Abare's car.
Like I said those who bother to try the LT1 castings do quite well.
Here are the dirty details on Rick Abare's car.
10-01-2006, 10:01 PM
#31
When I comes to larger strokers, I would def go with a good after market head to make the most power possable.
But if were talking near to stock cubes, and a street car the stock heads are really good. After Markets wont hurt either.........
But if were talking near to stock cubes, and a street car the stock heads are really good. After Markets wont hurt either.........
10-01-2006, 10:08 PM
#32
So sick and tired of hearing about ricks car.
Its not a street car, its a race car. Its got full interior? How?
Its caged, its a beast car! Very nice setup, but comparing that to this and this to that is obsured (sp).
When trying to sell a product your going to do some crazy **** that most dont.
In AI's case, they went ***** out with stock castings, most LT1 owners wont do what AI did, that car is more then a ported stock intake/castings.
Dont get me wrong, i like fast cars, but when you rant about LT1 Castings/Intakes VS Aftermarket stuff, it just doesnt work.
I dont mean to **** anyone of with this post either.
Tony.
Its not a street car, its a race car. Its got full interior? How?
Its caged, its a beast car! Very nice setup, but comparing that to this and this to that is obsured (sp).
When trying to sell a product your going to do some crazy **** that most dont.
In AI's case, they went ***** out with stock castings, most LT1 owners wont do what AI did, that car is more then a ported stock intake/castings.
Dont get me wrong, i like fast cars, but when you rant about LT1 Castings/Intakes VS Aftermarket stuff, it just doesnt work.
I dont mean to **** anyone of with this post either.
Tony.
10-01-2006, 10:28 PM
#33
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No doubt, that Rick guy is making insane power. I don't know the guy so maybe it is legit, maybe it isn't, but either way, how many people around the country have messed with a ported factory casting? Pretty much everyone out there...SAM, TPIS, TEA, Lloyd Elliot, AI, Meaux, GTP, LPE the list goes on and on. I respect all these companies/research businesses but you don't see cars coming out of each of these shops with ported LT1's and 58mm TB on an LT1 intake making that kind of power.
Heck, maybe there is some magic to it and I just don't know what it is and neither does anyone else other than Advanced Induction (who are really nice guys by the way). But, every car that has been set up properly with a matching cam and quality larger runner AFR heads has made power on par with mine (or more power). There are lots out there, not just 1 or 2, literally dozens.
You come on here with a condescending attitude implying that everyone has made a mistake if they don't do things the way you see it. I've been doing this just long enough to know that I don't have all the answers and never will. The bottom line is, I like my combination and I'll reach my goal of 500rw SAE and that is what matters to me.
Heck, maybe there is some magic to it and I just don't know what it is and neither does anyone else other than Advanced Induction (who are really nice guys by the way). But, every car that has been set up properly with a matching cam and quality larger runner AFR heads has made power on par with mine (or more power). There are lots out there, not just 1 or 2, literally dozens.
You come on here with a condescending attitude implying that everyone has made a mistake if they don't do things the way you see it. I've been doing this just long enough to know that I don't have all the answers and never will. The bottom line is, I like my combination and I'll reach my goal of 500rw SAE and that is what matters to me.
Last edited by Turbo_6; 10-01-2006 at 10:35 PM.
10-02-2006, 05:22 AM
#38
Originally Posted by Speed Density
So sick and tired of hearing about ricks car.
Its not a street car, its a race car. Its got full interior? How?
Its caged, its a beast car! Very nice setup, but comparing that to this and this to that is obsured (sp).
When trying to sell a product your going to do some crazy **** that most dont.
In AI's case, they went ***** out with stock castings, most LT1 owners wont do what AI did, that car is more then a ported stock intake/castings.
Dont get me wrong, i like fast cars, but when you rant about LT1 Castings/Intakes VS Aftermarket stuff, it just doesnt work.
I dont mean to **** anyone of with this post either.
Tony.
Its not a street car, its a race car. Its got full interior? How?
Its caged, its a beast car! Very nice setup, but comparing that to this and this to that is obsured (sp).
When trying to sell a product your going to do some crazy **** that most dont.
In AI's case, they went ***** out with stock castings, most LT1 owners wont do what AI did, that car is more then a ported stock intake/castings.
Dont get me wrong, i like fast cars, but when you rant about LT1 Castings/Intakes VS Aftermarket stuff, it just doesnt work.
I dont mean to **** anyone of with this post either.
Tony.
You are exactly what I was talking about those too ignorant to try just pretend it is something wild and mysterious rather than learn something.
10-02-2006, 07:54 AM
#40
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Dwayne,
Have you thought that some have done research or just got a screaming deal on a set of AFR's. I did, and love them. Research and a deal.
What my heads flow, I dont know, they are not castings from AFR, they have had the CNC to them since then. My cam is mid 22*'s intake and low 23*'s exhaust with around .55*'s lift on both. Does is pass smog, we shall see, but it is not on a close LSA like some do with them to make the power.
A couple of well known names in the Impala World have driven my car.
With 3.73's and the T56, a not so good combination in a heavy car with a heads and cam that moves the curves up. now with 4.56's the car is a lot more responsive.
I need to dyno it and see where it is.
I was told that my motor has more useable power than his 383, same gears and tranny.
Does my car get it, yes.
It is about the same, actually quicker from 70-100 than the stock motor was on a 100 shot of N2O. So if my combination is not making power with AFR's I guess I will take the lack of power. It will blow the tires off in 1st and 2nd without the clutch for help. I have 315's on the rear also on 17x11's.
If I get the 60' to where I was with the stock motor, I will be right where you are in times, this si full weight also on both motors, nothing removed or unbolted.
My point. Some will go against the grain, is it wrong, maybe, maybe not, but if the car runs good after, what is the problem besides someone trying to get the name out there of a company they tried.
Have you thought that some have done research or just got a screaming deal on a set of AFR's. I did, and love them. Research and a deal.
What my heads flow, I dont know, they are not castings from AFR, they have had the CNC to them since then. My cam is mid 22*'s intake and low 23*'s exhaust with around .55*'s lift on both. Does is pass smog, we shall see, but it is not on a close LSA like some do with them to make the power.
A couple of well known names in the Impala World have driven my car.
With 3.73's and the T56, a not so good combination in a heavy car with a heads and cam that moves the curves up. now with 4.56's the car is a lot more responsive.
I need to dyno it and see where it is.
I was told that my motor has more useable power than his 383, same gears and tranny.
Does my car get it, yes.
It is about the same, actually quicker from 70-100 than the stock motor was on a 100 shot of N2O. So if my combination is not making power with AFR's I guess I will take the lack of power. It will blow the tires off in 1st and 2nd without the clutch for help. I have 315's on the rear also on 17x11's.
If I get the 60' to where I was with the stock motor, I will be right where you are in times, this si full weight also on both motors, nothing removed or unbolted.
My point. Some will go against the grain, is it wrong, maybe, maybe not, but if the car runs good after, what is the problem besides someone trying to get the name out there of a company they tried.