Puck

iTrader: (17)

NP! If you have the cash then def spring for the LS1. It is a better engine as it should be. If you can only get an LT1 though, there is hope! Just do lots of research ahead of time. There are tons more cam only 11 sec LT1s then you may think - frank went bottom bottom 11's(11.2 I think?) cam only with a totally streetable stall and gearing

Make the right choices with parts that compliment each other, and a nice suspension to put the power to the ground, and you will be good to go.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

What AMAZES me about this arguement is the majority of people IN these discussions repeat what they have been reading on message boards and have never even come close to building a fast car themselves.

The same goes for solid roller cams and opti life.

Frank95Z went 11.15 with a 3350lb cam only LT1 car. Put that car at 3000lbs like MOST of the LS1 cam only cars, straight 10.80's.WHich puts him dead in the middle of the list of cam only LS1's, some cars weight 2880, which would put Frank in the 10.60's

A totally stock internal LT1 on a 150 shot went 10.80

Look at the fastest LT1 list on here, Impressive stuff.

Big Rick went 8.08 at over 3150lbs with a single 91 mm turbo at 24lbs of boost and 23* heads on a 29.5x10.5 tire and stock suspension, the LS1 that went in the top of the 6's weighed maybe 2900lbs with twin turbos and 15* heads with HUGE tires with a 4 link and a tube chassis. Put twin turbos on Ricks LT1 with the 30+ lbs of boost the LS1 had in the same chassis and see how close the results REALLY are. You guys NEVER compare apples to apples.

WHat you guys do not realize is MOST of the LT1 cars listed there are heavier(for whatever reason) than LS1 cars with similar mods.

Any why do people think because you put aftermarket heads on a LT1 it takes the LT1 status away? When you put C5R or ET heads on an LS1, is it STILL an LS1/LS2?

My car with a six speed and a 10 bolted 3.42 gear rear end(which is what most LS1 dyno queens have) would make 520+ rwhp on pumpgas with 23* heads. And it is only a 383. There are 408 inch 15* headed LSx engines that dont make that.

My car made 463 to the tires SAE corrected with two wounded pistons, I venture to say it makes 475rwhp now that they are fixed, and that is through a 4L60E and a 9 inch rear,4.11 gears with a steel driveshaft, how many 383 inch 15* headed LSx engines have you seen do that through a FULL MUFFLEX, 4L60E and a 9 inch? Not many.

If I gutted my car to 3100lb raceweight(which is what MOST LS1 cars posting times weigh, I would be running 10.30's on drag radials all motor on pumpfuel(or faster) and I drive my car all over the place.

So, I ask you, wheres the beef?


David

burnzilla

iTrader: (3)

at this thread...darren your a comedian.

NHRAMAN

iTrader: (1)

TXFORMULA

gentleman, start your benches !

darrensls1

They won't tell me thier "secrets" means it hasn't happened "officially". No offense. But since you were not providing me any links I did do a google search and this is what I found in a thread talking about the fastest LT1's:

Here's the link:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1891915

Which in turn is referencing this link:

http://web.camaross.com/forums/showthread.php?t=305819

FASTEST CAM ONLY LT1
Frank95z
1995 Z28, stockheads ,A4,52TB, cold air,hooker longtube headers, Joe O custom grind cam, 1.6rr,Strange 12bolt,QT Pros, Vig3200, 3325lbs
1/4: 11.163 @ 119.86
1/8: 7.05 @ 96.00
1.49 60 ft

Now I will fully admit that this is damn close to 10's. I never heard the cam only LT1 record before but I was thinking 11.3 maybe. So I'm impressed to see 11.1 and at nearly 120 mph.

Now if you can find any valid links that show someone breaking this mark then feel free to post them and I will stand corrected. Otherwise my current position is the cam only record stands at 11.1 @ 119.

According to this:

http://www.bmrfabrication.com/BMR-NEWS.htm

The current record for LS1 cam only is 10.23 @ 130.95.

I think both records are extremly impressive and I give props to both those guys.

darrensls1

Well I aims to please

97blkz

iTrader: (1)

OK, the ls1 has way better heads and intake that is the gap between the cars. We know motors are giant vacuums and need to get max air in and out. I agree that in stock form the ls1 is superior, I agree that in the bolt on stage ls1's have the edge. Once you go big CI, SC or Turbo then it's game on! As stated before the majority of LT1 owners do not have the coin invested in their rides vs the typical ls1 guy. Locally here in Tampa there is ONE other "fast" (relative word) LT1. So most people assume that LT1's are not capable, simply not true.

Look at this car and for what's done you can't be disappointed.

http://camaroz28.com/forums/showthread.php?t=552342

http://www.zippyvideos.com/7656513657304186/rich__andy/

-PEPE-

iTrader: (10)

LSxx cars are the best thing since Goobers Peanut Butter, everyone knows that, even God knows that, the LTxx cars are weak and unworthy and doesn't even deserve it's own forum because they are slow and can't even make 500rwhp to the ground much less run in the 10's...gooshhhh thought everyone knew that...

Sorry just had to post in another useless LT1 Vs. LS1 thread

Ya'll know I think LTxx's RULE

Ironxcross

iTrader: (8)

I really don't understand what everyone is talking about. Theres NO possible way for the LS1 to be faster than the LT1. Why? Because of the ignition system! Now I know what you may be thinking "now wait just a second there ironxcross, the ls1 has coil packs per cylinder and was created by god himself".. and you'd be right, BUT the lt1 has something better - THE OPTI. It was created by the devil, so its got more power... obviously. It automatically[ (key word here) adds 300 rwhp. Add that to the rest of the motor (275-285 hp, depending on year) and guess what.. you're in the 9's. And thats with BAD traction.

Now I know what you're thinking now.. but ironxcross why do i still run 14s? Now calm yourself children, I have an answer for you. Government conspiracy. I kid you not. The government pays all drag strips to put in anti optispark emitters.. and you know what they do.. CUT YOUR HORSEPOWER IN HALF. THATS the real reason you run a 14 something, or a 13 something with bolt ons... the government.

Now how do we solve this. Simple! Wrap your opti COMPLETELY in tin foil. I don't care if the balancer is getting scratched, you'll be fast like the devil intended! Please, if you have any quesions, be sure to PM me, I am here to turn the tide against the evil government forces and their LS1s!!

Puck

iTrader: (17)

Try mid to low 10s "cam only" . Do you notice that their list is different then ours, which is different from other sites - which are still there different from the stock eliminator cars? The world is a bigger place then "www". Some have thrown out mid to bottom 10s N/A with stock lift cams and unported heads(just valvejobs). Also no tranny brakes. To be fair these are "race cars" with some serious weight reduction, but a cam only 11 second LT1 street car is very possible too.

Just because your "average joe" does not usually break into 11's cam only does not mean it is not possible. Remember again that most LT1 owners are young kids just starting to mod - and make mistakes like hotcam kits and out of the box AFRs .

Maybe you should head out to the LT1 shootout, I think it would give you guys a bit more respect for the LT1 crowd to see people who know what they are doing throwing down some sick times with 15 year old technology Even more impressive would be an NHRA Stock Eliminator tournament. Although those are purpose built drag cars, the times they run with the limits imposed on them is amazing.

BTW before my ported heads and custom cam I went 12.7 with bolt-ons and untouched heads N/A...with a modest 3000 stall and stock 3.23s. Also 140k on the clock Slow? Yea, I guess that is...but there are also cam'd LT1s that barely run that too. The variation is HUGE. The rules of the game are weight, suspension, and traction. Not peak dyno numbers.

If you still don't think it is possible, GIZMO(Darren) still has more then one stock headed LT1 in the 10s IIRC. Its not "cheap", and its not a "street car", but it gets the job done.

If frank wanted to push things he could easily see 10s with more stall and more agressive gearing.

FASTFATBOY

iTrader: (23)

I DONT THINK YOU READ MY POST ABOVE

BTW here is THE better list of fastest LT1's It is updated much more on a regualr basis than the one on CZ28.com

https://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/750499-fastest-lt1-s-ls1tech-com.html

Frank95Z went 11.15 with a 3350lb cam only LT1 car. Put that car at 3000lbs like MOST of the LS1 cam only cars, straight 10.80's.WHich puts him dead in the middle of the list of cam only LS1's, some cars weight 2880, which would put Frank in the 10.60's

Which is SOLIDLY in the LS1 cam only "record" field.

As far as NHRA stockers not giving up secrets, this DOES NOT mean that they are running those times "unofficially" They run those times under NHRA rules and spend ALOT of money finding horsepower inside those very strict rules...why would they tell anyone for free? They have to run stock cubic inches, stock heads, throttlebody, intake and a stock LIFT cam....and they run in the 10's...impressive if ya ask me.


David

slow and da curious

I know that LS's are faster than LT's, stock for stock. I have an LT and I do love it but I wish I maybe woulda looked more into it like Coon is doing before I jumped on a clean black 97WS6.

What's even sadder is that I read this whole damn thread....lol.

I've seen Frank's car run. We race at the same track. And when I get mine finished, we'll race in the same class...again. And he'll probably tree me...again. But he HAS TO keep extra weight in his car to keep it slower than 11.50. I didn't personally see the 11.16 pass because he went to another local track down the road but when I see him with 150 extra lbs in the trunk and womp to stay slower than 11.50, I know he ain't lyin.

I said all that to say this: you can definitely make an LT run into the low 11's, if not high 10's with more weight reduction (see Frank's weight - 3325...room for improvement) and stronger gears (I think he's running 3.73's) and a bigger converter.

I'm a huge fan of the stockers myself (stock eliminator class - nhra). Those guys make 10 second passes all day...they have to or they wouldn't make the field. They do it with tall tall gears (can you say...5.13's?) and a butt load of converter. They can't change lift (only duration), throttle body or heads. But they drag the bumper out the hole.

I think the only place you can go wrong Coon, is to buy a Ford or Jap Crap.


97WS6 A4
Black w/ Orange Stripes
BRE cam, Yank 3600, 52mm, 1.6RR's, MSD, 3.73's, PCMforLess, and now....Opti trouble!!!
(gotta create that sig soon)

Coonass350

iTrader: (19)

Slow and Da Curious, thanks for you reply man i really appreciate it. but how much does yall insurance run on these cars?? im just curious to an estimate. and Slow where you from? your avatar says LSU country. i live in Springhill, Louisiana

slow and da curious

I'm about an hour south of Baton Rouge...Thibodaux, La. I race at No Problem Raceway in Belle Rose.

As far as insurance price goes, ya gotta be Al Bundy (married with children) to get a good rate. I think mine only went up 300 bucks a year but I'm almost 40 with 2 curtain climbers at home so it wasn't even noticeable. Then again, it's kinda like worrying about gas mileage when you're buying one of these cars.....it can't / shouldn't be high on your list of priorities. If you want something that gives you cheap insurance, look into the new Kia . I hear they get awesome rates...lol.

j/k wicha bro....

Good luck



97WS6 A4
Black w/ Orange Stripes
BRE cam, Yank 3600, 52mm, 1.6RR's, 3" w/ bullets and turndowns, MSD, 3.73's, PCMforLess, and now....Opti trouble!!!
Best time before above mods- 13.61 @ 100.69
(gotta create that sig soon)

Coonass350

iTrader: (19)

haha yea i feel ya lol but i was just wondering around what it would cost a month for me. im 18 yrs old. not married but i have a baby and my babys momma lives with me lol. but i dont think that will count lol but a friend of mine said his was 5000 a year, can it get up that high?

darrensls1

Where is your link?????????

I gave you one showing the LT1 cam only record is 11.1 @ 119. Show me something concrete and I'll believe you. Until then..........

The record stands at 11.1 @ 119.

When did I say LT1's couldn't get into the 11's cam only? I said I never heard of one getting into the 10's cam only. And so far, I still havn't.

I saw a 70's station wagon run low 9's before. Anything can be made fast with enough time, money and know how. Anything in the 10's or faster is impressive to me and I am well aware that many LT1's fall into that catagory.

But that's not what this debate is about.

You think you're telling me something here? I've been around these forums and NYIRP long enough to know exactly what makes fbodys quick as well as what makes em stick

And I can say the same things about my times and my "modest" 3500 stall and stock 3.23 gears.

I have shown you the current LT1 cam only record and you have shown me nothing. You'll have to forgive me but I reserve my right to doubt you at this time.

I was thinking a little more weight reduction but I agree that his car does have the "potential" for a high 10 second pass. But that still doesn't change the fact that the LT1 record currently stands at 11.1 and the LS1 record is 10.2.

ABA383

iTrader: (1)

I love my LT1 Formula, but I'd bet that I could get my wife's 2000 SS into the high 10s with a lot less work than I did to my car...There seems to be more folks around my way with head/cam LS cars that make me work for a living...If Mrs. ABA383 ever lifts her restraining order and lets me mod her car, I'd be able to do a comparison, but for now I'll just have to follow my wife's laws...

--Alan

darrensls1

I did but I didn't feel I needed to respond to it since I was all ready debating these points with puck. But if you insist.....

I appreciate the link. But the two main things I noticed are that the worlds fastest LT1 is still 8.08 (big rick) and the fastest cam only is still 11.1 (frank95z). So it really doesn't change my position that the LS1 is still considerably faster in both catagories.

But he's not "SOLIDLY" in the ls1 cam only territory. He's almost a full second away from it. You can't argue about what his time "could" be because it can go both ways.

"Well what if Rodney dropped another 200 lbs from his raceweight and went with X stall or changed to Y gears". Then he's be in the 9's and way in front again!"

See how stupid that argument sounds? They run what they run. If the owners ever make changes and reset the current bars then and ONLY then will we have to reevaluate the current debate.

I'm sorry but the argument fails for you the same way it fails for puck. If you do a google search, ls1tech search or camaroz28 search on cam only lt1 record they will all lead you to the same thing....

11.1 @ 119. You guys act like you are ashamed of that. I for one am DAMN impressed by it. We all know what a restriction the stock heads are so to get that fast with stock cubes, untouched heads and no power adder is amazing. Especially considering the raceweight of 3350 lbs.

So stop trying to use times that are not posted, not official and not verifiable. Because if we are playing that game then who's to say someone in a LS1 hasn't secretly ran in the 9's cam only? Then we can change the argument over high 10's vs high 9's. Either way I win that debate.

burnzilla

iTrader: (3)

The only thing youve won is another cheesehead hat to add to your collection.