Ram Air vs K&N
12-28-2007, 09:29 AM
#61
Taking the Ram air out of the question, I saw the lowest IATs with the factory LT1 WS6, ram air setup.
Again, I've ran all 3 setups and will probably go back to the LT1 WS6 setup if I can can make it seal somehow with this '98up WS6 hood.
I can kneel down, look into my hood , and see my throttle blades. The intake air doesn't turn, pass in front of my radiator, etc. It goes straight into the front of my hood, travels approx. 8" before hitting my TB blades head on. Absolutely zero restriction and that tract is also sealed off from everything else.
As far as ram air, I don't know, however---
I know I had a helluva time tuning my KFX700 quad a while back because it ran awesome at any throttle as long as I was under about 30mph. Once I got over that, it would run like total ****. Finally figured it out, The ram air hitting the carbs over 30 mph was causing it to run lean and break up at really anything over 20% throttle.
I had cut out a hood vent that allowed it it to happen. I had to block the opening into the airbox so that the air could not be "rammed" in. The air now rammed into a wall, then around and into the airbox. Problem solved, runs perfect up to 80mph with the same jetting now.
Again, I've ran all 3 setups and will probably go back to the LT1 WS6 setup if I can can make it seal somehow with this '98up WS6 hood.
I can kneel down, look into my hood , and see my throttle blades. The intake air doesn't turn, pass in front of my radiator, etc. It goes straight into the front of my hood, travels approx. 8" before hitting my TB blades head on. Absolutely zero restriction and that tract is also sealed off from everything else.
As far as ram air, I don't know, however---
I know I had a helluva time tuning my KFX700 quad a while back because it ran awesome at any throttle as long as I was under about 30mph. Once I got over that, it would run like total ****. Finally figured it out, The ram air hitting the carbs over 30 mph was causing it to run lean and break up at really anything over 20% throttle.
I had cut out a hood vent that allowed it it to happen. I had to block the opening into the airbox so that the air could not be "rammed" in. The air now rammed into a wall, then around and into the airbox. Problem solved, runs perfect up to 80mph with the same jetting now.
Last edited by fireman; 12-28-2007 at 09:40 AM.
12-28-2007, 09:39 AM
#62
i had a MTI carbon fiber lid on my car(Lt1)i trapped 2mph more than i did with the CAI almost the same 1/8mi. so my car was not affected down low either.
since a lid is similar to the ws6 ram air box just upsidedown i will go back to the lid set up when i get my new hood
since a lid is similar to the ws6 ram air box just upsidedown i will go back to the lid set up when i get my new hood
12-28-2007, 10:46 AM
#63
Actually, it is closer to 3500 raceweight then 3600 
. Of course you should have me "covered" - look at all the crap you have on there! Does not change the fact that you have a mid-high 10 second car still in the 11's 
Seems like you did your homework, but can't get it all to the ground!
Taking shots at my car is useless - it runs pretty well for what it is...a tired old DD LT1
***BACK ON TOPIC***
What my car runs has nothing to do with the fact that ram air is almost useless on a street/strip car. If those nostrils were facing backwards or sideways you would run the same times and make the same power in the 1/4.
. Of course you should have me "covered" - look at all the crap you have on there! Does not change the fact that you have a mid-high 10 second car still in the 11's Seems like you did your homework, but can't get it all to the ground!Taking shots at my car is useless - it runs pretty well for what it is...a tired old DD LT1
***BACK ON TOPIC***
What my car runs has nothing to do with the fact that ram air is almost useless on a street/strip car. If those nostrils were facing backwards or sideways you would run the same times and make the same power in the 1/4.
For the record I did not take a shot at YOUR car until you took a shot at mine, with the 300lb weight difference in the cars you would not even BE in the 11's. carrying 3800lbs.LOL!
When you build a 10 sec car, we will talk. Mine is a 10 sec car...I got one more trip to the track and I will have acheived it.
David
12-28-2007, 12:02 PM
#65
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for the record, Fastfatboy is the only one here that has a ****** clue as to what he's talking about. I just read every post, and you guys that are trying to bash him sound like morons. You repeat stuff he says with the words twisted making yourself look yet even dumber. You guys dont even know the difference between ProStock and FunnyCar, what they run, what kind of power they make, or what fuels they use. I have known this kind of stuff with dead accuracy since I was like 6 years old...Literally. If you guys dont even know that stuff then you have ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS arguing about drag racing. Give it a rest.
And yes ram air does work. If it didnt certain 10.5 and drag radial classes would allow forward facing scoops. I cant think of the exact class off hand, but a certain Mustang class states "no forward facing scoops". Its street car class. It HAS been PROVEN time and again that with a sealed, forward scoop you will lean out up top and need to re-tune. Like Fatboy said, if you cant figure that out, well then, thank you for being so ignorant as to let us be faster than u! We've tried to help you figure this out, but you cant comprehend. So thank you for letting us be smarter and faster.
geez.
And yes ram air does work. If it didnt certain 10.5 and drag radial classes would allow forward facing scoops. I cant think of the exact class off hand, but a certain Mustang class states "no forward facing scoops". Its street car class. It HAS been PROVEN time and again that with a sealed, forward scoop you will lean out up top and need to re-tune. Like Fatboy said, if you cant figure that out, well then, thank you for being so ignorant as to let us be faster than u! We've tried to help you figure this out, but you cant comprehend. So thank you for letting us be smarter and faster.
geez.
12-28-2007, 01:11 PM
#67
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12-28-2007, 01:50 PM
#68
the topic really drifted off course,the deal was weather or not a CAI is better than a RAM AIR set up!
burnzilla
i understand your point The Ram Air does NOT force air into the induction system especially at idle...
the whole trick to the induction is a short distance to travel with the least amount of heat absorbed from the engine compartment.
burnzilla
i understand your point The Ram Air does NOT force air into the induction system especially at idle...
the whole trick to the induction is a short distance to travel with the least amount of heat absorbed from the engine compartment.
12-28-2007, 02:37 PM
#69
The argument was NOT whether ram air works or not. I happen to have a nice 03 zx-6r with a fully functional ram air system from the factory. Very effective around the 130 mark, but makes a difference on that lil engine at around 40mph too! Too bad that has NOTHING to do with a v8 f-body...
The debate was about it being useful in a STREET CAR only trapping in the 120's. All that professional pro stock crap is USELESS in this argument.
If you believe an 11 second car will get a huge benefit from two little nostrils "ram air" effect, maybe you should ditch dyno tunes and prochargers for Hypertech's and electric "turbos". They claim TONS of benefits too.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836138
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In particular pay attention to our very own Nine Ball's post: :https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....64&postcount=9 <-TESTED
/thread.
The debate was about it being useful in a STREET CAR only trapping in the 120's. All that professional pro stock crap is USELESS in this argument.
If you believe an 11 second car will get a huge benefit from two little nostrils "ram air" effect, maybe you should ditch dyno tunes and prochargers for Hypertech's and electric "turbos". They claim TONS of benefits too
.https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=836138
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
In particular pay attention to our very own Nine Ball's post: :https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....64&postcount=9 <-TESTED
/thread.
12-28-2007, 03:04 PM
#70
for the record, Fastfatboy is the only one here that has a ****** clue as to what he's talking about. I just read every post, and you guys that are trying to bash him sound like morons. You repeat stuff he says with the words twisted making yourself look yet even dumber. You guys dont even know the difference between ProStock and FunnyCar, what they run, what kind of power they make, or what fuels they use. I have known this kind of stuff with dead accuracy since I was like 6 years old...Literally. If you guys dont even know that stuff then you have ABSOLUTELY NO BUSINESS arguing about drag racing. Give it a rest.
And yes ram air does work. If it didnt certain 10.5 and drag radial classes would allow forward facing scoops. I cant think of the exact class off hand, but a certain Mustang class states "no forward facing scoops". Its street car class. It HAS been PROVEN time and again that with a sealed, forward scoop you will lean out up top and need to re-tune. Like Fatboy said, if you cant figure that out, well then, thank you for being so ignorant as to let us be faster than u! We've tried to help you figure this out, but you cant comprehend. So thank you for letting us be smarter and faster.
geez.
And yes ram air does work. If it didnt certain 10.5 and drag radial classes would allow forward facing scoops. I cant think of the exact class off hand, but a certain Mustang class states "no forward facing scoops". Its street car class. It HAS been PROVEN time and again that with a sealed, forward scoop you will lean out up top and need to re-tune. Like Fatboy said, if you cant figure that out, well then, thank you for being so ignorant as to let us be faster than u! We've tried to help you figure this out, but you cant comprehend. So thank you for letting us be smarter and faster.
geez.
12-28-2007, 03:41 PM
#71
For the record I run an LPE CAI with a 2 liter bottle sized K&N filter hanging down under the car...The splash pan is removed and the tip of the filter bolts to a body hole left from the splash pan removal...With over 121 mph traps with only 375 rwhp I think its moving plenty of cool air, but I'd entertain a sealed airbox style of ram air if it would help me at all...I guess I just need a good comparison back to back with my current CAI and a sealed box like David's set up...I don't see the need to argue as apparently this is a hot (cool) topic...I say that you use whatever works for you...I'm fairly certain that I'll get a 10 second pass next year with my CAI and at 3600lbs...To each his own
--Alan
--Alan
06-19-2008, 02:08 AM
#73
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so bottom line, ram air either with a lid or sealed to the hood, is going to be better than a cold air intake on an lt1 correct? isnt that what was being debated in the first place?
06-19-2008, 07:58 AM
#74
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Jumping in a little late I know, but I completely agree with Fastboy. Compared to a stock LT1 intake the WS6 style airbox that is SEALED to the hood will make more power on the street, period for 2 reasons:
1) The air is only travelling about 12" total from outside through baffles into TB (this is approximate because Ive never felt the need to measure my intake length). This air never mixes with engine compartment air and as a result will be at the same temp as the ambient air because the airbox is sealed to the hood.
Regardless of any ram effect or not cold air = more power.
Despite everything else air travelling 12" inches straight is less restrictive than air travelling like 3' through 2 90*bends.
Less restrictive and colder = more power.
2) Now onto the ram effect. You will not notice anything on the dyno, period. The CAI will make more power on the dyno than the stock intake because it is less restrictive and should be pulling cold air from in the fender well or under the car.
Now about the whole you have to be travelling 4,000,000mph to see any benefit from the ram air setup...
If you draw a simple force diagram (everyone took a high school physics class at some point I am assumming), you will quickly realize that the force of the air getting pushed into the airbox (causing it to pressurize slightly) does not have to "overcome" what the engine sucks in alone. They are complementing forces not opposing.
Example if you engine sitting still and free reving (or dyno) sucks in air at 30mph (just an example) the air is moving in this direction:
outside ----> TB @30mph
Now taking the same example with the ram air setup and lets say the car is moving at 60mph you add the forces together because both of the forces are moving the air in the same direction...not against each other.
outside air ----> TB @30mph (what the engine does on its own at the same RPM)
+
outside air -----> TB @ 60mph (because thats how fast the car is moving towards the air or in effect if you were sitting still on a dyno inside of a wind tunnel with the air blowing at the car at 60mph...same thing).
= outside air moving into the airbox at 90mph (in this example). Simple physics.
Now if you were going 60mph in reverse then yes you would have to subtract the forces.
As to what this actually does in practicallity is with the airbox completely sealed to the hood the air pressure inside the box will be slighly higher than in a setup not sealed to the hood as in a CAI by the fender. So when the TB blades open the air naturally goes the direction of least resistance, so when the car is moving forward this is into the TB rather than relying solely on the vacuum created by the motor.
In conclusion, sorry for the long post, compared to a stock intake both the CAI and the RAM will make more power.
The RAM will make less on a dyno, but be slightly more efficient when driving.
So to get the best of both worlds between say at K&N CAI and a RAM...do this:
Get a K&N high flow filter drop in and put it in you RAM airbox. The key is the box must be sealed to the hood (otherwise it isnt a form of a CAI because the air isnt getting rammed or coming from outside...its coming from inside the car).
**Disclaimer I am strictly referring to the LT1 WS6 intake setup when referring to RAM as I have no personnal experience with either the LT1/LS1 SS or LS1 WS6 setups.
1) The air is only travelling about 12" total from outside through baffles into TB (this is approximate because Ive never felt the need to measure my intake length). This air never mixes with engine compartment air and as a result will be at the same temp as the ambient air because the airbox is sealed to the hood.
Regardless of any ram effect or not cold air = more power.
Despite everything else air travelling 12" inches straight is less restrictive than air travelling like 3' through 2 90*bends.
Less restrictive and colder = more power.
2) Now onto the ram effect. You will not notice anything on the dyno, period. The CAI will make more power on the dyno than the stock intake because it is less restrictive and should be pulling cold air from in the fender well or under the car.
Now about the whole you have to be travelling 4,000,000mph to see any benefit from the ram air setup...
If you draw a simple force diagram (everyone took a high school physics class at some point I am assumming), you will quickly realize that the force of the air getting pushed into the airbox (causing it to pressurize slightly) does not have to "overcome" what the engine sucks in alone. They are complementing forces not opposing.
Example if you engine sitting still and free reving (or dyno) sucks in air at 30mph (just an example) the air is moving in this direction:
outside ----> TB @30mph
Now taking the same example with the ram air setup and lets say the car is moving at 60mph you add the forces together because both of the forces are moving the air in the same direction...not against each other.
outside air ----> TB @30mph (what the engine does on its own at the same RPM)
+
outside air -----> TB @ 60mph (because thats how fast the car is moving towards the air or in effect if you were sitting still on a dyno inside of a wind tunnel with the air blowing at the car at 60mph...same thing).
= outside air moving into the airbox at 90mph (in this example). Simple physics.
Now if you were going 60mph in reverse then yes you would have to subtract the forces.
As to what this actually does in practicallity is with the airbox completely sealed to the hood the air pressure inside the box will be slighly higher than in a setup not sealed to the hood as in a CAI by the fender. So when the TB blades open the air naturally goes the direction of least resistance, so when the car is moving forward this is into the TB rather than relying solely on the vacuum created by the motor.
In conclusion, sorry for the long post, compared to a stock intake both the CAI and the RAM will make more power.
The RAM will make less on a dyno, but be slightly more efficient when driving.
So to get the best of both worlds between say at K&N CAI and a RAM...do this:
Get a K&N high flow filter drop in and put it in you RAM airbox. The key is the box must be sealed to the hood (otherwise it isnt a form of a CAI because the air isnt getting rammed or coming from outside...its coming from inside the car).
**Disclaimer I am strictly referring to the LT1 WS6 intake setup when referring to RAM as I have no personnal experience with either the LT1/LS1 SS or LS1 WS6 setups.
06-19-2008, 10:15 AM
#75
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When I bought my car, it had the ram air hood, but no airbox. It had a Trickflow elbow, and SLP CAI. I sold the elbow and SLP and bought the airbox. I didn't notice any difference whatsoever realistically, and I haven't been to the track yet. But it's a hell of a lot cooler! But I have not SEALED it to the hood yet. I don't know where to buy the factory seal, so I'll have to make my own I guess..
But I have not SEALED it to the hood yet. I don't know where to buy the factory seal, so I'll have to make my own I guess..
09-24-2008, 07:20 PM
#76
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this is a question i am just wondering Im new to all this
09-24-2008, 07:57 PM
#78
Search the tech section. There is proof ram air is better then a CAI. LT1 WS6 is the best of all them. I highly dought the SS ram air works any better than a CAI. After Making a rip down the track or the highway. My airbox and filter are cold to the touch and there is almost no obstution to the intake other than the filter tb blades and MAF screen. LT1 WS6 ram air rules.
09-24-2008, 08:54 PM
#80
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^what he said. it breaks down to comon sense. its a shorter tube, with less bends in it, and air flowing directly into it. (i am of course refering to the LT1 intakes here). whether or not its actualy 'forcing' more air into your motor is an entire different debate. now you get to decide whether or not its worth that extra 10hp or whatever it is, and pay $600 for a new hood and an airbox, or $150 for a tube and a filter.