electric water pump?
02-28-2008, 07:13 PM
#21
I run the Meziere with the Painless harness with no problems...Because its electric and runs at a constant speed it cools better at idle than my stock mechanical pump, but runs a touch hotter at speed because the pump motor rpms don't increase with engine speed...On a Mustang Dyno same day before and after tests revealed a 9-10 rwhp increase across the tested rpm range...I can't say if it improved anything at the track because I made another change at the same time so I'm not sure if it made a difference...
Would I do it again? I don't know for sure...
--Alan
Would I do it again? I don't know for sure...
--Alan
02-28-2008, 08:40 PM
#23
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actualy the electrics free up hp by eleminating the cam driven pump which takes hp to run and the electric dont but they dont increase hp by flowing less just by being electric over mechanical.
02-28-2008, 08:48 PM
#24
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the flow of the coolant doesn't affect power output. and the gains from an EWP vary depending on the setup. gains can very well be greater than 11hp due to cooling the combustion chamber to deter dieseling and also allowing for a cooler intake charge temperature.
Last edited by sdm1234; 03-01-2008 at 09:24 PM.
02-28-2008, 08:56 PM
#25
What do you think provides the rotation to turn the alternator??
The same engine that has to mechanically turn a stock pump.
Do you think there is a net energy GAIN somehow by converting rotation into electricity and back to rotation? That is what you are describing.
They increase HP to the tires by doing less work, yes they are electric but the energy turn the alternator to make the electricity comes from the crankshaft just as the rotation would for the mechanical, it is not pulled out of thin air.
I know you have been told otherwise but that was stupid people saying it, very few of us take the time and have the mental capacity to understand the processes involved.
If you honestly believe that you can get more work out of something by converting energy forms twice from rotation to electricity back to rotation instead of just using the existing rotation, then you need to do the world a favor and use your vast knowledge and build us a perpetual motion machine to end our dependence on fossil fuels.
I absolutely agree that electruics do free up power to the wheels and make a car faster. I just hate all the stupid reasons people makeup to explain it when the simple truth is it moves less water. If you could put some sort of variable drive on the mechanical you could get the same sort of gains by just never having it spin so fast.
02-28-2008, 09:06 PM
#27
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You are describing a perpetual motion machine.
What do you think provides the rotation to turn the alternator??
The same engine that has to mechanically turn a stock pump.
Do you think there is a net energy GAIN somehow by converting rotation into electricity and back to rotation? That is what you are describing.
They increase HP to the tires by doing less work, yes they are electric but the energy turn the alternator to make the electricity comes from the crankshaft just as the rotation would for the mechanical, it is not pulled out of thin air.
I know you have been told otherwise but that was stupid people saying it, very few of us take the time and have the mental capacity to understand the processes involved.
If you honestly believe that you can get more work out of something by converting energy forms twice from rotation to electricity back to rotation instead of just using the existing rotation, then you need to do the world a favor and use your vast knowledge and build us a perpetual motion machine to end our dependence on fossil fuels.
I absolutely agree that electruics do free up power to the wheels and make a car faster. I just hate all the stupid reasons people makeup to explain it when the simple truth is it moves less water. If you could put some sort of variable drive on the mechanical you could get the same sort of gains by just never having it spin so fast.
What do you think provides the rotation to turn the alternator??
The same engine that has to mechanically turn a stock pump.
Do you think there is a net energy GAIN somehow by converting rotation into electricity and back to rotation? That is what you are describing.
They increase HP to the tires by doing less work, yes they are electric but the energy turn the alternator to make the electricity comes from the crankshaft just as the rotation would for the mechanical, it is not pulled out of thin air.
I know you have been told otherwise but that was stupid people saying it, very few of us take the time and have the mental capacity to understand the processes involved.
If you honestly believe that you can get more work out of something by converting energy forms twice from rotation to electricity back to rotation instead of just using the existing rotation, then you need to do the world a favor and use your vast knowledge and build us a perpetual motion machine to end our dependence on fossil fuels.
I absolutely agree that electruics do free up power to the wheels and make a car faster. I just hate all the stupid reasons people makeup to explain it when the simple truth is it moves less water. If you could put some sort of variable drive on the mechanical you could get the same sort of gains by just never having it spin so fast.
02-28-2008, 09:52 PM
#29
rotflol
02-29-2008, 09:38 AM
#30
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My serpentine belt broke and my car ran for a little over an hour, the whole time the EWP was running, and not over heating. They dont take hardly any power to run. The only problem ive had want with the waterpump itself, but a bad relay, it was a $11 fix.
02-29-2008, 09:59 AM
#31
Look at it this way: The crank turns the cam at half speed. The cam then turns the WP at a stepped up speed. All this step down and then step up of rotational forces eats up power.
Yes, the alternator will present a higher belt load with that extra six amps on it. HOWEVER, if an electric motor had to go through the step down then step up gear changes, it would need to be bigger than a six amp motor, probably more like twenty amps.
This is why when dyno’d, the motor with the EWP will make a few more HP. 6-12 more is probably typical.
Yes, at higher RPM, the stock pump will move more coolant. I’m certain, at cruising RPM’s of say 2,000 RPM, the EWP is moving more. Who runs their motor at 5 grand all the time?
And, at the track, some guys kill the alternator just for racing 1/4 mile at a time so the alternator’s just a pulley at that point.
And, being the stock water pump is gear/cam driven, losing your serpentine belt won’t have any affect on the pump. You’ll lose AC, charging and PS.
Yes, the alternator will present a higher belt load with that extra six amps on it. HOWEVER, if an electric motor had to go through the step down then step up gear changes, it would need to be bigger than a six amp motor, probably more like twenty amps.
This is why when dyno’d, the motor with the EWP will make a few more HP. 6-12 more is probably typical.
Yes, at higher RPM, the stock pump will move more coolant. I’m certain, at cruising RPM’s of say 2,000 RPM, the EWP is moving more. Who runs their motor at 5 grand all the time?
And, at the track, some guys kill the alternator just for racing 1/4 mile at a time so the alternator’s just a pulley at that point.
And, being the stock water pump is gear/cam driven, losing your serpentine belt won’t have any affect on the pump. You’ll lose AC, charging and PS.
02-29-2008, 10:08 AM
#32
Alright, the only reason i can really see ANY reason to go with an electric water pump would be if your existing one went out. Personally if it was time to change a timing chain i would go ahead and buy a 200$ EWP because a stock replacements 100$ anyways. so id put the electric on and go with a double roller timing chain..
circumstances would change if i had just changed the timing chain with a oem one and then the water pump went out, id just go with another stock water pump..
personal opinion tho.
circumstances would change if i had just changed the timing chain with a oem one and then the water pump went out, id just go with another stock water pump..
personal opinion tho.
03-01-2008, 08:59 PM
#34
Look at it this way: The crank turns the cam at half speed. The cam then turns the WP at a stepped up speed. All this step down and then step up of rotational forces eats up power.
Yes, the alternator will present a higher belt load with that extra six amps on it. HOWEVER, if an electric motor had to go through the step down then step up gear changes, it would need to be bigger than a six amp motor, probably more like twenty amps.
This is why when dyno’d, the motor with the EWP will make a few more HP. 6-12 more is probably typical.
Yes, at higher RPM, the stock pump will move more coolant. I’m certain, at cruising RPM’s of say 2,000 RPM, the EWP is moving more. Who runs their motor at 5 grand all the time?
And, at the track, some guys kill the alternator just for racing 1/4 mile at a time so the alternator’s just a pulley at that point.
And, being the stock water pump is gear/cam driven, losing your serpentine belt won’t have any affect on the pump. You’ll lose AC, charging and PS.
Yes, the alternator will present a higher belt load with that extra six amps on it. HOWEVER, if an electric motor had to go through the step down then step up gear changes, it would need to be bigger than a six amp motor, probably more like twenty amps.
This is why when dyno’d, the motor with the EWP will make a few more HP. 6-12 more is probably typical.
Yes, at higher RPM, the stock pump will move more coolant. I’m certain, at cruising RPM’s of say 2,000 RPM, the EWP is moving more. Who runs their motor at 5 grand all the time?
And, at the track, some guys kill the alternator just for racing 1/4 mile at a time so the alternator’s just a pulley at that point.
And, being the stock water pump is gear/cam driven, losing your serpentine belt won’t have any affect on the pump. You’ll lose AC, charging and PS.
However, what you are describing is efficiency. There are bearings, gears, etc. involved. They will all cause parasitic loss, increased heat, and decreased power. IDK on this particular application, it would take more calculations that I care to undertake.
I agree that there could be parasitic loss in the factory implementation versus a EWP. Only dedicated testing and documentation could prove this true or false. The main job of any water pump, be it mechanical (stock) or electrical (aftermarket) is to rotate a shaft, which has impellers, to move water. Is the mechanism to rotate this shaft more efficient using electricity versus a gear (or gears)? IDK, and I have not seen concrete evidence either way. Have users shown increases in HP using the ewp? They claim so.
Just go with what suits you, don't call people names because they may not agree with you, and best of luck.
03-01-2008, 09:44 PM
#35
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depending on the gpm of the EWP, yes you can get cooler temperatures. and cooler temperatures result in a cooler intake charge temp due to the fact that heat transfers from the block, to the heads, to the intake manifold. and to confirm the statement further, maybe more significantly, remember that air into the motor is drawn from inside the engine bay (unless R/A or CAI). the hotter the engine, the hotter the adjacent air temperature, which results in hotter intake charges. this hot air now insulates the interior of the intake manifold, causing further heat buildup. the more heat, the less dense the air, thus causing less fuel and less HP. does this all make a little more sense now? you have to think past the basics and consider how the machine works along with thermodynamics, as a whole unit.
Last edited by sdm1234; 03-01-2008 at 10:20 PM.
03-02-2008, 01:11 AM
#36
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ONOZ the guy who's everywhere and knows everything has posted in ur thread, better watch out or he will use his immense brain power and unlimited knowledge of everything mechanical to pwn ur 3rd grade mind...
03-02-2008, 02:59 AM
#38
This is a link where a second grader connected one brand (the third grader was busy grasping):
http://ken.lowrance.com/projects/CSI...mp/Default.htm
BOL.
http://ken.lowrance.com/projects/CSI...mp/Default.htm
BOL.
