I Hate Ls1's
LS1s sound like crap. They aren't good sounding motors. I'd be ashamed to have a loud exhaust in an LSx. I also think they lose in the looks department. Hence me buying my LT1. I LOVE the LT1 Trans Ams and Formulas.
I dont think the times are that great I was running those times but at 103mph in my old auto with just full exhaust but maybe your DA is high? I would think you should be a high 12 with those mods.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 535
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From: SC
they do sound like crap especially compared to LT1's and new edge mustangs. but they are great performers. the only thing i dont like about LT1's is how pointy the nose is and it does look a bit more cheaply made but nonetheless, more aggressive
are you ******* kidding me???
the the reason you run a cooler stat, with a cooler running engine the intake temps will be cooler and you can get away with running slightly more timing i dont know why you guys dont get this
peak power usually occurs with a spark timing slightly before detonation, with a cooler running engine you can run slightly more timing
the the reason you run a cooler stat, with a cooler running engine the intake temps will be cooler and you can get away with running slightly more timing i dont know why you guys dont get this
peak power usually occurs with a spark timing slightly before detonation, with a cooler running engine you can run slightly more timing
I fail to see how a 160 thermo is going to allow you to run more timing. The only thing it does is enable or disable coolant flow. The only way I could see it helping with spark advance is if you ran your car hard right after startup. Since the 160 would allow coolant flow sooner, you would not have to wait as long for the motor to start cooling down, but you're not going to be able to run more timing than you normally would with the stock thermo once the engine reaches operating temp. Basically once the thermo opens you get the same amount of cooling potential with either one. IF it cooled the engine more (like meth/alky) you could run more timing, but that is not what it does.
There seems to have a lot of crazy ideas and misinformation about a simple thermostat and what it does.
There seems to have a lot of crazy ideas and misinformation about a simple thermostat and what it does.
im not so sure if you really know the proper operation of a thermostat
wouldn't have to wait as long before the engine "starts cooling down" ?? its being cooled the entire time running through the bypass/heater core/oil cooler if you have one, the thermostat opens when the temperature of the antifreeze reaches the either 160 or 180 whatever stat you have
if you have a cooler running engine you are able to run more timing safely which equals more power
Last edited by 1994Z28Lt1; Mar 16, 2008 at 02:48 AM.
you seem to forget as a whole the engine (if receiving adequate air flow) will be on average of 20 degrees cooler allowing a slightly larger window before detonation occurs, thus being able to advance timing slightly and because of running cooler temps even on stock tuning the engine wont detonate as easily and there would be less of a chance for the computer to pull timing
im not so sure if you really know the proper operation of a thermostat
wouldn't have to wait as long before the engine "starts cooling down" ?? its being cooled the entire time running through the bypass/heater core/oil cooler if you have one, the thermostat opens when the temperature of the antifreeze reaches the either 160 or 180 whatever stat you have
if you have a cooler running engine you are able to run more timing safely which equals more power
im not so sure if you really know the proper operation of a thermostat
wouldn't have to wait as long before the engine "starts cooling down" ?? its being cooled the entire time running through the bypass/heater core/oil cooler if you have one, the thermostat opens when the temperature of the antifreeze reaches the either 160 or 180 whatever stat you have
if you have a cooler running engine you are able to run more timing safely which equals more power
Basically the "so you installed a 160 thermo, so now you can run more timing" idea is a false attribution that is not really accurate.
the thermo has nothing to do with intake temps.
A 160 thermo does not make your engine run cooler so you can run more timing, it just changes the point at which the coolant begins flowing. The coolant provides the same level of cooling to the engine with either thermo. What the 160 thermo changes is the time that elapses before coolant begins to flow, not the amount or properties of it. It cools the engine quicker, it does not cool the engine more. If it did cool the engine more then yes you could run more timing, that's what alky injection etc does, but that is not what the thermostat does.
A 160 thermo does not make your engine run cooler so you can run more timing, it just changes the point at which the coolant begins flowing. The coolant provides the same level of cooling to the engine with either thermo. What the 160 thermo changes is the time that elapses before coolant begins to flow, not the amount or properties of it. It cools the engine quicker, it does not cool the engine more. If it did cool the engine more then yes you could run more timing, that's what alky injection etc does, but that is not what the thermostat does.
if the coolant running through the engine is on average 20 degrees cooler guess what happens to the rest of the engine? especially the heads! 20 degrees cooler!its not rocket science if the coolant is allowed to escape to the radiator at a cooler temp (with enough airflow) the entire engine will be at a lower temp
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Verdad Gallardo you're looking at this wrong it doesn't cool the engine more as far as BTU's, it allows coolant to escape the stat at 160 degrees instead of 180! if the coolant running through the engine is on average 20 degrees cooler guess what happens to the rest of the engine? especially the heads! 20 degrees cooler!
if the coolant running through the engine is on average 20 degrees cooler guess what happens to the rest of the engine? especially the heads! 20 degrees cooler!Anyway, yes when the coolant first touches the motor it will be 20 degrees cooler. But wait! what's going to happen to the coolant when it touches that hot *** motor? It's going to warm up! that's right. You are still not understanding this. Changing to a 160 deg thermo (thereby letting the coolant escape 20 deg earlier) DOES NOT MEAN you have an engine that will be running on average 20 degrees cooler.
The engine is still going to warm up. If you let it idle etc on the stock fan settings, it's still going to reach the same final temp. It will take longer to get there though, because the coolant flows through the motor earlier. Again what I'm saying is that the thermo changes the rate of cooling, not the amount of it.
sure in town when your radiator isn't getting enough airflow to cool the engine enough to allow the stat to regulate the temp, it will rely on how your fans are set, and if you still have them on stock settings you wont see any difference in town as to what temp the engine runs.
but on the highway when airflow is not a problem your temp will hover around what your stat opens at
and if you are tuned for that 160 stat, the tuner will program the fans to come on at a lower temp, which will again keep you engine cooler than stock
either way with a proper tune you engine will run cooler with a 160 degree stat than the stock 180 degree stat, this allows the tuner more room for advancing the timing and possibly even leaning it out some to produce more power
how do you think a good tune actually makes more power? find a happy medium between spark advance and fueling
but on the highway when airflow is not a problem your temp will hover around what your stat opens at
and if you are tuned for that 160 stat, the tuner will program the fans to come on at a lower temp, which will again keep you engine cooler than stock
either way with a proper tune you engine will run cooler with a 160 degree stat than the stock 180 degree stat, this allows the tuner more room for advancing the timing and possibly even leaning it out some to produce more power
how do you think a good tune actually makes more power? find a happy medium between spark advance and fueling
BOSS APPROVED! I figured that post would just be confusing so I deleted it lol.
Anyway, yes when the coolant first touches the motor it will be 20 degrees cooler. But wait! what's going to happen to the coolant when it touches that hot *** motor? It's going to warm up! that's right. You are still not understanding this. Changing to a 160 deg thermo (thereby letting the coolant escape 20 deg earlier) DOES NOT MEAN you have an engine that will be running on average 20 degrees cooler.
The engine is still going to warm up. If you let it idle etc on the stock fan settings, it's still going to reach the same final temp. It will take longer to get there though, because the coolant flows through the motor earlier. Again what I'm saying is that the thermo changes the rate of cooling, not the amount of it.
Anyway, yes when the coolant first touches the motor it will be 20 degrees cooler. But wait! what's going to happen to the coolant when it touches that hot *** motor? It's going to warm up! that's right. You are still not understanding this. Changing to a 160 deg thermo (thereby letting the coolant escape 20 deg earlier) DOES NOT MEAN you have an engine that will be running on average 20 degrees cooler.
The engine is still going to warm up. If you let it idle etc on the stock fan settings, it's still going to reach the same final temp. It will take longer to get there though, because the coolant flows through the motor earlier. Again what I'm saying is that the thermo changes the rate of cooling, not the amount of it.
also think about this....
once the thermostat opens whether its a 180 degree stat or a 160 degree stat there isn't a restriction to coolant flow
the coolant is going to flow at the same rate with a 180 stat or a 160 stat, therefore you can assume that since the flow rate is the same and the only thing that differs between the two is at which temp the coolant enters the engine, that the engine with the 160 degree stat the coolant will leave the engine cooler than an engine with a 180 degree stat
(keep in mind this is assuming enough airflow to keep the temp hovering around the temp at which the stat opens)
I got it because I also wanted one just for the pure simplicity of how easy/cheep it is to make fast. I will never enjoy it (the way it sounds and feels) even if it surpasses my LT1 in power, as much as I enjoy and love my old supercharged LT1. Yeah its harder to make as fast, but just the way it sounds and feels is much more in my opinion what a strong V8 should. It just sucks because I have friends with cheeper built stroker motors in their LS cars with the same supercharger and less boost than me, and they are a good 75-100 RWHP more powerfull than me 
. That part sucks, but knowing that my 13 year old LT1 can still put the smack down on 90% of whats on the streets today brings a smile to my face still 
Not to mention, I seem to get more respect being that fast in an LT1 than my LS1 friends do.
. That part sucks, but knowing that my 13 year old LT1 can still put the smack down on 90% of whats on the streets today brings a smile to my face still Not to mention, I seem to get more respect being that fast in an LT1 than my LS1 friends do.
It's kinda weird I have almost the same setup as you do in your LT1 car. built 383 with a D1, and I also have a Silver 2000 T/A. That's crazy. here's a pic of mine.
but to get back on subject it is kind of irritating to see the same numbers out of an LS1 car that has less than half the time and cash invested. But you know what they say if you can't beat 'em join 'em.
11 Second Club
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,847
Likes: 1
From: Sandwich, IL
Hence why I am having ETP 215's, Street sweeper cam and true duals put on my car. And I'll be damn proud to have that loud LS1 making sweet music to my ears
And the track times will be nice too
To get back on the subject, your times are a little off with the mods you have. Depending on your DA, you should be in the high 12s.
And, c'mon guys! It's like you're giving up on the ole' LT1....I've owned 8 LT1 camaros and will own more in due time. I'm not an LS1 hater, but regardless or whether they are faster or not, I like the LT1 better. And some of you are thinking it takes heads/cam to run 12s. LMAO! Don't you realize that the bolt on record is 11.80? I've ran mid-high 12s all day long in my full weight(plus a cage), bolt on LT1, with no tune in August heat! It just takes a little insight and some time.
Good luck with you car and hope to see you in the high 12s with some traction/tuning.
And, c'mon guys! It's like you're giving up on the ole' LT1....I've owned 8 LT1 camaros and will own more in due time. I'm not an LS1 hater, but regardless or whether they are faster or not, I like the LT1 better. And some of you are thinking it takes heads/cam to run 12s. LMAO! Don't you realize that the bolt on record is 11.80? I've ran mid-high 12s all day long in my full weight(plus a cage), bolt on LT1, with no tune in August heat! It just takes a little insight and some time.
Good luck with you car and hope to see you in the high 12s with some traction/tuning.
