Lloyd Elliot or Advanced Inductions
All you've done is throw this out with nothing to back your claim. How is this possible for cylinder heads alone to "make less torque/gain top end hp" running a larger head with no cam change? Can you explain why an engine "will make less torque..."?
Honestly, from what I've read and personally seen, both Lloyd Elliot and Advanced Induction are great products. Like someone else already said, go with your budget, either way it will be a good choice.
I don't see how that is close to being possible since once again, there is no cylinder head design that could ever outflow the demands of an intake stroke. I can see velocity becoming an issue once the breathing characteristics have been changed once valve timing comes into play, but not with just heads. I installed ported heads which, comparatively typing, were monstrous compared to stock heads and the torque curve itself did not change, but increased in value.
This starts to touch on the age old argument where a good set of ported cylinder heads/stock cam will always outperform a larger cam/stock heads application (I don't mean just straight line performance). I believe it, just because of what needs to be done to a cam only application in order to take full advantage of the new power curve.
This starts to touch on the age old argument where a good set of ported cylinder heads/stock cam will always outperform a larger cam/stock heads application (I don't mean just straight line performance). I believe it, just because of what needs to be done to a cam only application in order to take full advantage of the new power curve.
Researching, I found most people with the AI190 kit feel the same.
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: LT1 land...the "409" of the 90s!
Either is a great Product IMHO
I have been using Lloyd's stuff for six years now.. Curently running 10s N/A as are a few with Phil's stuff
Both good products IMHO
I have been using Lloyd's stuff for six years now.. Curently running 10s N/A as are a few with Phil's stuff
Both good products IMHO
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Restricted User
Joined: May 2006
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From: virginia
I think you misunderstand pumping losses and engine physics.
Jes
Both companies have great products. Only way to know which one is better is to call each and talk to them and that will allow you to decide which is the better fit for you. I was convinced I wanted to go with Ai until I called Lloyd one day and I flipped to that side. I had some communication issues with Ai which pissed me off and Lloyd proved to be the better fit for me. What is best in my opinion or anyone elses may not be best for you so definetly talk to them both but either way Im sure you will be satisfied.
Both companies have great products. Only way to know which one is better is to call each and talk to them and that will allow you to decide which is the better fit for you. I was convinced I wanted to go with Ai until I called Lloyd one day and I flipped to that side. I had some communication issues with Ai which pissed me off and Lloyd proved to be the better fit for me. What is best in my opinion or anyone elses may not be best for you so definetly talk to them both but either way Im sure you will be satisfied.
Advanced Induction gets my vote.
I can see where SS RRR is coming from by saying that you won't lose torque with ported cylinder heads, the curve is just shifted up the RPM range. I don't 100% agree with that because the valve timing events of a camshaft determine when and where it wants the air flow, but generally it does happen. You will lose low rpm torque, but you might gain average torque over the whole rpm range.
Will in about a week and a half or so. One of my best friends has the LE1 heads and 1.3 camshaft and had some issues at first non related to that but ironed them out and got the car tuned and its great and hes very happy. Have another friend who ran an LE3 setup a couple years ago and liked it. Haven't ran any the Ai stuff but only hear great things such as the results from yourself.
Look at Alek's results on Advanced Induction's "results" page. Tell me that 355 is lacking torque. From memory 385 at 3400rpms and peaks at 418 somewhere up around 5100, peak HP is up about 6800-7000 and at the track he revs it to 7500rpms. That is a big wide useable powerband, making more torque than a lot of strokers, making good torque low and still having a high rpm capable motor.
A lot of the "this is the way it will be" comments like the lack of torque and such are based on information gathered from the average poor combo.
A lot of the "this is the way it will be" comments like the lack of torque and such are based on information gathered from the average poor combo.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 520
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I have AI 200s on my 355 with a custom AI cam in the 23x 23x neighbor hood with .6XX lift. With a 2800 stall it runs well enough that it is my daily driver, and I left my 17 year old daughter take it out when she asks.
Of course tuning by ED Wright helps tame a big cam in a smallish engine.
Oh, and I have more low end torque than my tires can cope with.
Mike
Of course tuning by ED Wright helps tame a big cam in a smallish engine.
Oh, and I have more low end torque than my tires can cope with.
Mike
I don't know about others, but I was referring to H/C in general. If you take a ported stock casting and put them on a LT1 with a stock cam you will lose low end torque. I guess that classifies as a "poor combo" as you said. I would hope that any matched H/C combo wouldn't fall into that category.
Alek is running a SR too, so that definitely doesn't hurt his cause.
Alek is running a SR too, so that definitely doesn't hurt his cause.
Yes it is a solid roller BUT it is also an engine that routinely sees 7500rpms yet makes lowend torque comparable or better than a lot of strokers, imagine if he had been looking to build a low rpm torquer.
Wrong.... THERE IS NO 23° head that can outflow the downstroke of the piston in a 350 cube motor. There are real cylinder heads that do... and that's why in those more airflow does not equal more power reguardless of what the internet gurus tell you.
I think you misunderstand pumping losses and engine physics.
Jes
I think you misunderstand pumping losses and engine physics.
Jes
I don't know what you mean about "some heads that do..." but that's neither here nor there. What I do know is that when you compare a 190 to 200cc head you WILL NOT experience torque loss of any kind.
1. this should be locked before it erupts into another flamewar
2. this has been argued/discussed countless times.
3. Both can do great work and have had proven results
4. Ideal choice depends on your setup/goals/budget/priorities
5. Neither one is "better", each has their supporters and detractors
2. this has been argued/discussed countless times.
3. Both can do great work and have had proven results
4. Ideal choice depends on your setup/goals/budget/priorities
5. Neither one is "better", each has their supporters and detractors
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 368
Likes: 0
Look at Alek's results on Advanced Induction's "results" page. Tell me that 355 is lacking torque. From memory 385 at 3400rpms and peaks at 418 somewhere up around 5100, peak HP is up about 6800-7000 and at the track he revs it to 7500rpms. That is a big wide useable powerband, making more torque than a lot of strokers, making good torque low and still having a high rpm capable motor.
A lot of the "this is the way it will be" comments like the lack of torque and such are based on information gathered from the average poor combo.
A lot of the "this is the way it will be" comments like the lack of torque and such are based on information gathered from the average poor combo.