Whining in 1-4 from T56,Take a look at these input/counter shaft gears
03-12-2009, 10:38 AM
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Whining in 1-4 from T56,Take a look at these input/counter shaft gears My 01' SS with a T56 developed a whine in neutral and 1st thru 4th gears with 2nd and 4th having the highest amount of noise. It sounds like a muted roots blower.
Anyway i took it apart and snapped some pics of the input shaft teeth and the mating countershaft gear teeth. All the roller bearings appear ok with no obvious chunks missing. the fluid was fresh dexronIII ATF and only been in the tran for 1k miles. This noise started ever since the turbo went on and seen some massive torque through it.
There was also a substansial amount of silvery oil tracing down the inside of the front cover right where these gears mate.
Trying to identify which needs to be replaced the most as i really dont see anything too abnormal here.
Anyway i took it apart and snapped some pics of the input shaft teeth and the mating countershaft gear teeth. All the roller bearings appear ok with no obvious chunks missing. the fluid was fresh dexronIII ATF and only been in the tran for 1k miles. This noise started ever since the turbo went on and seen some massive torque through it.
There was also a substansial amount of silvery oil tracing down the inside of the front cover right where these gears mate.
Trying to identify which needs to be replaced the most as i really dont see anything too abnormal here.
03-12-2009, 10:44 AM
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They don't look bad from the pics, but they can be deceiving. Did you happen to pull the input & counter bearing races from the front plate? When I've had whine'ing like that, sometimes the "loose" end-play can cause the race to wear down the shimms and/or front plate, increasing the end-play even more.
might just need a tighter shimming on it.
might just need a tighter shimming on it.
03-12-2009, 10:58 AM
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Nuetral, 2nd and 4th produce the MOST audible whine. 4th actually kinda growls if i roll into hard at lower rpms and once it gets above 2500 it clears up but then again all ican hear is exhaust over that point.
in nuetral you can really hear it humming outside the car, when i let the clutch out its a slow wind up and a slow decel when i push the clutch in.
The races in the cover are fair, they are a little dulled but no chunks missing or groves.
I will check the endplay tonight, i only have these two with me today.
in nuetral you can really hear it humming outside the car, when i let the clutch out its a slow wind up and a slow decel when i push the clutch in.
The races in the cover are fair, they are a little dulled but no chunks missing or groves.
I will check the endplay tonight, i only have these two with me today.
03-12-2009, 11:14 AM
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after playing with the input shaft roller bearing here at my desk it seems it rotates very roughly and i think i can feel a little ridge that each roller seems to catch on... That would certainly do it, im thinking i should cut the cage off and inspect it and just get a new bearing.
03-12-2009, 12:15 PM
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For grins, i cut the cages off the roller bearings were the majority of the shavings appeard to come from. They are not in good shape. The input kinda felt like crap turning it slowly bu those races are deff showing wear. Thoughts as to this area may certainly be the culprit? For $150 for every bearing/race in the trans. im just going to swap them to be safe anyway.
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03-12-2009, 01:13 PM
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I'm not going to say it won't fix your noise but I doubt it . If you were getting noise in 1-3 and then 5-6 but 4th was quiet , I'd say its the gears but you claim to hear it in 4th as well . How does the tip of the input shaft where it rides in the pilot bearing look ?
03-12-2009, 03:28 PM
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Was teh noise present BEFORE you changed teh fluid? You say fluid is only 1k miles old....was the noise there with the OLD fluid?
When EXACTLY did teh noise start?
You sure you had teh right amount of fluid in it?
If everything I listed above was OK, then I would agree with thesource in asking about the pilot bearing.
Make sure you check/replace that before you put it back in.
Also, how many miles on teh tranny??
03-12-2009, 04:30 PM
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Was teh noise present BEFORE you changed teh fluid? You say fluid is only 1k miles old....was the noise there with the OLD fluid?
When EXACTLY did teh noise start?
You sure you had teh right amount of fluid in it?
If everything I listed above was OK, then I would agree with thesource in asking about the pilot bearing.
Make sure you check/replace that before you put it back in.
Also, how many miles on teh tranny??
When EXACTLY did teh noise start?
You sure you had teh right amount of fluid in it?
If everything I listed above was OK, then I would agree with thesource in asking about the pilot bearing.
Make sure you check/replace that before you put it back in.
Also, how many miles on teh tranny??
Pilot bearing is brand new and just looked at it last night after pulingthe trans and is still mint, the stub that goes into it on the input is in great shape too... Its something gear or bearing related, just need to figure out which or the combo of both. It had 4 quarts of dexronIII non syn ATF and wasnt leaking anywhere. This trans as 40K on it and VERY HARD 40k at that.
03-12-2009, 05:03 PM
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i want to say im surprised it went out that soon but if they are dogged on then it can happen. does it have any trouble goin into any of the gears???? nice camera btw
03-13-2009, 07:05 AM
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The roller bearings show significant wear. It could be from debris/ it could be from loading( excessive). These bearings are mini pumps they pump in oil / the debris stays and they pump out the oil. The inner race shots show that there was some scoring, prolly from the debris.
The gear tooth faces have some serious wear. A big concern is that it is not showing a full face contact pattern. That indicates a poor shimming or a very unhealthy pilot bearing ... or both. A check of the pocket bearing health would also be prudent.
The wear I see could certainly cause a noise. The gear should be replaced and the shim set correctly. Unfortunately I suspect the cluster head member looks the same( poor wear/ contact pattern) and should also be replaced.
The gear tooth faces have some serious wear. A big concern is that it is not showing a full face contact pattern. That indicates a poor shimming or a very unhealthy pilot bearing ... or both. A check of the pocket bearing health would also be prudent.
The wear I see could certainly cause a noise. The gear should be replaced and the shim set correctly. Unfortunately I suspect the cluster head member looks the same( poor wear/ contact pattern) and should also be replaced.
03-13-2009, 07:17 AM
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Thanks for all the good info guys! Im gonna get a different cluster and main shaft and all new bearings and go from there.
Its been so long that id have to go out and measure what shims i have under the races. I have the remainder of a shim kit for it yet so if things need better endplay i should be able to correct it.
Thanks!
Its been so long that id have to go out and measure what shims i have under the races. I have the remainder of a shim kit for it yet so if things need better endplay i should be able to correct it.
Thanks!
04-15-2009, 05:57 PM
#15
I have the same noise in my 06 GTO's T56. Also after putting on a turbo kit. The noise is steadily increasing as the weeks go by. Shifting into any gear is smooth, no problems there.
It's much louder when cold. It sounds like I have a procharger! In neutral, it whines until the clutch pedal is depressed, as it spins down, the noise goes away. It makes the noise in all gears, though 5th and 6th are less noticible (lower RPM, more road noise?). As I'm taking off from a stop, it reminds me of a loud truck transmission.
It was not too low on fluid, it had 4 qts. Lots of fine metal flake in the oil. I suspect it's the input shaft bearing, and perhaps other bearings as well.
Does this sound like a reasonable guess?
BTW: The trans has had some accidental abuse. My crappy shifting skills had me putting it in 2nd from the top of 3rd (5500 to 6000 RPM) on three seperate occasions. Ouch! Is there a chance I bent something and that in-turn has taken out the bearing(s)?
Thx,
-Mike
It's much louder when cold. It sounds like I have a procharger! In neutral, it whines until the clutch pedal is depressed, as it spins down, the noise goes away. It makes the noise in all gears, though 5th and 6th are less noticible (lower RPM, more road noise?). As I'm taking off from a stop, it reminds me of a loud truck transmission.
It was not too low on fluid, it had 4 qts. Lots of fine metal flake in the oil. I suspect it's the input shaft bearing, and perhaps other bearings as well.
Does this sound like a reasonable guess?
BTW: The trans has had some accidental abuse. My crappy shifting skills had me putting it in 2nd from the top of 3rd (5500 to 6000 RPM) on three seperate occasions. Ouch! Is there a chance I bent something and that in-turn has taken out the bearing(s)?
Thx,
-Mike
