Why aren't any aftermarket short shifters actually SHORT shifters?
09-24-2009, 08:46 AM
#1
Why aren't any aftermarket short shifters actually SHORT shifters? Pro 5.0? Same length throw as stock.
B&M? Same length throw as stock.
Hurst? Same length throw as stock.
MGW? -Unknown to me-
What gives? There are 5+ alternatives for short shifters (that are ACTUALLY VERY SHORT) for my 540i, and I've driven a CTS-V with a SHORT shifter (a wrist-flick), but none for these cars??? I'm really at a loss as to why these manufacturers make aftermarket shifters, albeit more precise, but no shorter than stock.
I like the height of the Pro 5.0 shifter and would like to avoid a short stick that makes the shifter essentially a nub in my center console. I don't think this would shorten the throws considerably anyways.
I'm putting shims in my Pro 5.0 to help with the centering, and I'm very happy about the 2-3 shift and powershifting with it, but the throws are long and long = lost time.
Any thoughts/comments/suggestions? This is going to be a sub-10 second car and I want to do everything possible outside of the driver to put myself in a good position.
B&M? Same length throw as stock.
Hurst? Same length throw as stock.
MGW? -Unknown to me-
What gives? There are 5+ alternatives for short shifters (that are ACTUALLY VERY SHORT) for my 540i, and I've driven a CTS-V with a SHORT shifter (a wrist-flick), but none for these cars??? I'm really at a loss as to why these manufacturers make aftermarket shifters, albeit more precise, but no shorter than stock.
I like the height of the Pro 5.0 shifter and would like to avoid a short stick that makes the shifter essentially a nub in my center console. I don't think this would shorten the throws considerably anyways.
I'm putting shims in my Pro 5.0 to help with the centering, and I'm very happy about the 2-3 shift and powershifting with it, but the throws are long and long = lost time.
Any thoughts/comments/suggestions? This is going to be a sub-10 second car and I want to do everything possible outside of the driver to put myself in a good position.
09-24-2009, 02:57 PM
#6
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Ive talked about this a lot in the past, thought a standard height shifter may look silly in the car, and shirt shifter may looks cool, it is not the length of the shifter handle that determines shift speed, its the precision of the shifter.
Also, having a longer lever will help shifting when you get up there in HP because a longer lever will apply a larger force at the opposite side of the folcrum. I do not think that the length of the shifter arm changes the speed of your shifts.
If this is just a personal style preference that is one thing. But if you are looking for a shorter shifter handle to increase your shift speed you will be dissapoitned.
I use a stock length pro 5.0, I happen to think I shift pretty well, I do not see it slowing me down one bit.
Also, having a longer lever will help shifting when you get up there in HP because a longer lever will apply a larger force at the opposite side of the folcrum. I do not think that the length of the shifter arm changes the speed of your shifts.
If this is just a personal style preference that is one thing. But if you are looking for a shorter shifter handle to increase your shift speed you will be dissapoitned.
I use a stock length pro 5.0, I happen to think I shift pretty well, I do not see it slowing me down one bit.
09-24-2009, 03:10 PM
#7
a shorter shifter handle will make shifts quicker in theory, but it will be a minimal gain. however, if you move the fulcrum up, you increase the speed that the bottom ball of the shifter moves...but its going to be harder to shift and may not operate properly in the reciever part of the trans.
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09-24-2009, 03:57 PM
#8
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a shorter shifter handle will make shifts quicker in theory, but it will be a minimal gain. however, if you move the fulcrum up, you increase the speed that the bottom ball of the shifter moves...but its going to be harder to shift and may not operate properly in the reciever part of the trans.
when powershifting a trans that has a lot a lot of power going through it, the syncros become harder to seperate due to the forces involved in the driveline. a longer handle on the shifter will put more force onto the linkage allowing the seperation of the syncros.
this is how a "longer" handle helps.
i personaly witnesses a friend of mine miss gears non stop in a short handles pro5.0 shiftered car, install the stock handle back on, and not miss a single gear. this was a 427 Camaro so there was quite a bit of torque going through the trans.
again, believe me or not, the only thing i can do is use myself as an example. many have comented on my shifting, and I am using a stock handled pro-5.0
09-24-2009, 08:55 PM
#10
Guys, like I said before, I don't care about how long or tall the handle is. I said in my OP that I knew a shorter handle wouldn't help anything. I understand the physics behind the shifter and transmission.
I care about how long the throw is ---> 2 inches vs 5 inches, for example. Shorter THROW = faster.
No matter how good or fast you are at shifting, a 5 inch throw will ALWAYS take longer than a 2 inch throw, all things being equal.
My friend's CTS-V had a 2 inch throw, whereas the Pro 5.0 has almost a 4 inch throw.
I care about how long the throw is ---> 2 inches vs 5 inches, for example. Shorter THROW = faster.
No matter how good or fast you are at shifting, a 5 inch throw will ALWAYS take longer than a 2 inch throw, all things being equal.
My friend's CTS-V had a 2 inch throw, whereas the Pro 5.0 has almost a 4 inch throw.
Last edited by 94Z28rag; 09-24-2009 at 09:00 PM.
09-24-2009, 10:07 PM
#11
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ive had quite a few shifters but i must say my pro 5.0 and b&m ripper had a nice, shorter throw as opposed to stock. yeah, the stick itself was about stock length, but length isnt really as much of a factor as opposed to how its designed underneath. ripper ftw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aIpvPSGJCg i dont think the throw is slowing my shifts down any
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aIpvPSGJCg i dont think the throw is slowing my shifts down any
09-24-2009, 11:03 PM
#12
Haha, you're rowin the gears very well. While I agree, it doesn't change that fact that if your throw was half the distance your shifts would take half the time (however small that time may be).
That's all I'm saying here.
FWIW, my stock shifter to the Pro 5.0 was a negligible change in throw length.
That's all I'm saying here.
FWIW, my stock shifter to the Pro 5.0 was a negligible change in throw length.
09-25-2009, 07:32 AM
#15
when it comes to shifting a car fast, the longer handle will not help by increasing the speed of the linkage in the trans.
when powershifting a trans that has a lot a lot of power going through it, the syncros become harder to seperate due to the forces involved in the driveline. a longer handle on the shifter will put more force onto the linkage allowing the seperation of the syncros.
this is how a "longer" handle helps.
i personaly witnesses a friend of mine miss gears non stop in a short handles pro5.0 shiftered car, install the stock handle back on, and not miss a single gear. this was a 427 Camaro so there was quite a bit of torque going through the trans.
again, believe me or not, the only thing i can do is use myself as an example. many have comented on my shifting, and I am using a stock handled pro-5.0
when powershifting a trans that has a lot a lot of power going through it, the syncros become harder to seperate due to the forces involved in the driveline. a longer handle on the shifter will put more force onto the linkage allowing the seperation of the syncros.
this is how a "longer" handle helps.
i personaly witnesses a friend of mine miss gears non stop in a short handles pro5.0 shiftered car, install the stock handle back on, and not miss a single gear. this was a 427 Camaro so there was quite a bit of torque going through the trans.
again, believe me or not, the only thing i can do is use myself as an example. many have comented on my shifting, and I am using a stock handled pro-5.0
09-25-2009, 06:34 PM
#18
I always wondered this myself. I have a Pro 5.0 with a cut stick. It's nice to drive around day to day - it has a finely-machined mechanical feel to it that's way more precise then the stock shifter - but it sucks for pulling off super fast shifts. The throw is still kind of long and with the shorter stick, takes a little more effort to engage it to the next gear. It makes speed shifting really difficult.
By contrast, the B&M Ripper I tried in a friend's car, despite feeling like longer throws and a looser/less precise action, made it pretty easy to bang the gears really fast.
By contrast, the B&M Ripper I tried in a friend's car, despite feeling like longer throws and a looser/less precise action, made it pretty easy to bang the gears really fast.
