v8maro

iTrader: (4)

I called the body shop about this and they told me I could have the wrong kind of fluid in the trans? That the fluid is too thick in the cold weather (0*F) and causes the 2nd gear syncro not to open or close. Does this make sense or is the dealer f'n with me?
-Steve

Bugsquawsher

iTrader: (1)

It should have ATF in there.
Let the engine warm up with the clutch out a little longer.
It could mean that the blocker rings need to be change.
what year is your car and how many miles and has it ever been rebuilt.
Tom

v8maro

iTrader: (4)

Tom,
The car is a 99 w/36k miles on it. As far as I know (got is used w/25k mi) the fluid has never been changed. The trans has never been touched. Could an accident cause the blocker ring to go bad?
detials of my accident: https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129761
thanks
-Steve

Bugsquawsher

iTrader: (1)

Hmmmm
the gear shift linkage broke, cracked the bell housing, broke the slave to the clutch
I would not be surprized in the least if something you your tranny isn't broke or Bent.
Damn that Curb Owned your car. Might wanna have that thing Looked at,
And I mean rip it apart and look at all the gears , shafts , shift rods .
Could definately be something messed up.
Tom

Cal

iTrader: (1)

I think the're just f'n with you I bought my 2001 SS new off the show room floor and it does the same thing. I just shift slower until the car is warmed up a bit and that way there is no grind. You could also try the drill mod and see if that helps.

v8maro

iTrader: (4)

if i shift from 1st to 3rd it doesnt do it. Also if I go reallly slow into 2nd it wont do it.
-Steve

Cal

iTrader: (1)

Yeah I'm pretty sure that's normal, although I don't fully understand what causes it. That's how mine is anyway. It's like the clutch is slow to disengage when cold.

01PewterWS6

mine does the same thing when its cold, just let it warm up a bit and shift slow while its cold.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

My 2002 Z-28 is just like that. It is cold these days and the first few shifts here in downtown Columbus are pretty rough. Then, it smooths right out. My car has 34,000 miles on it, is never drag raced and has Mobile 1 in it as of 8,000 ago...

Seems pretty normal.

onehardmaro

Once it warms up the slave just builds more pressure making the clutch more sensitive. A good bleed should take car of it.

Cal

iTrader: (1)

I've often wondered if doing the drill mod would help with this problem.

kp

iTrader: (34)

If you seen how much mass that poor little blocker has to stop roating to get it in the next gear it wouldnt surprise you why its grinds going into another gear when its cold. Usually 3rd and 4th are worst when cold since those gears only use a single cone blocker.

It is possible the bearing between the input shaft and main shaft was damaged in the accident and that will cause hard shifting but most of these cars will shift pretty rough when its 0 degrees out and its cold.. If it bothers you just skip 2nd until it heats up..

distortion_69

iTrader: (20)

Mine does it in 5th.. Hasn't hurt anything thus far.

Peace,

jRaskell

iTrader: (1)

We just went through a rather unpleasant cold spell here in NH, most mornings it was in the negatives, a couple times well into the negatives. I never got any grinding in my TA. It took a lot more effort to get it into gear when it was that cold, but not even a hint of grinding at those temps.

Don't really know what it means, but it's not a symptom all cars have.

INMY01TA

iTrader: (1)

Mine does it on the first 3-4 shift of a REALLY cold morning.

trackbird

iTrader: (4)

If you move the master cylinder 1 inch, it won't matter if it is hot or cold, it is still the same amount of fluid displacement. If I displace the same amount of fluid and put the same amount of fluid into the slave, it will see the same pressure and move the same distance (same stroke). So, as you heat the fluid, the fluid will expand and become less dense. However, if it expanded in a closed system it would begin to disengage the clutch. So, we now know that the fluid gets warm and becomes less dense and has nothing to do with pressure or the stroke of the slave cylinder. And, if it was a slave problem, it would not specifically affect 2nd gear, they would all act that way....

onehardmaro

They would act that way if you shift fast enough; first to second is going to be the fastest shift. They said it doesnt do it if they shift slow. The fluid is going to compress some when the pedal is being pushed in, once the fluid is heated it is going to expand some so that one inch of pedal stroke is going to move more fluid. Makes sense to me and i didnt just make it up, maybe where i heard it from didnt know what they were talking about. But i dont know what else would cause grinding only when cold. Most cases of grinding are due to the clutch not being fully dissengaged through my experience.

Bugsquawsher

iTrader: (1)

Uh
Not tryin to insult you But this is Hmmm
whats the word. BS?
Actually the person that told you that if full of it or doesn't have a clue as to what they are talking about.
For One thing fluid Compresses so Little that it is considered Uncompressable.
I won't lie and tell you I know how much it expand from 0 degrees to 200 degrees, but I'm sure its not much. Thats what Break fluid was designed to do.
either way having hot expanded fluid or cold compressed fluid, the master is only going to displace a certain about, Lets say an ounce because I dont' feel like calculating the volume.
The only way expansion will be a factor is if you pressed in your clutch while cold and held it down till it reached 200 degrees. Then it could expand and open your clutch even more. But so slightly you wouldn't notice.
every time your foot comes up to top position , the fluid equalizes by retreiving more or depositing some in the reservour.
So if your Master is working correctly , it always moves the same volume of fluid each time.
The tranny is cold , parts shrink, the tranny fluid is cold and doens't flow as well. and possibly is gettin to were it could use some new Blocker rings.
Mine is a little sluggish in the morning too. That why the manufacturers say to warm you car up before you go ***** to the wall down the road.
anyone in here old enough to remember Carburetors ?

onehardmaro

Im not going to be insulted; facts are facts. Ditto on letting the car warm up though. Not that i remeber carbs but i always let my car warm up before i drive and i dont have any problems.

Cal

iTrader: (1)

Well I've owned several carburetor equipped cars and rebuilt many carbs as well, but I don't know what that has to do with clutch operation.

When I had my '67 Firebird, I didn't have a garage and I lived in a very cold part of the country. When I started out in the morning, it's Muncie M21 4-speed was very stiff and hard to get into gear, but it never did grind when I tried to shift under these conditions. It had a mechanical clutch linkage: all pushrods and belcranks, no hydraulics. I didn't always allow warm up time because I was usually late for class.

I also owned an '85 IROC Camaro with a hydraulic clutch for 16 years, and not once did it have this cold shift grind.

We have had a '93 TA with hydraulic clutch since '94, and has never once exhibited the problem. This of course is a 4th gen, but LT1 equipped and you can tell it has a much stiffer clutch than the LS1 cars do.

I bought the 2001 Camaro SS new off the show room floor, and have never banged the syncros, yet it has had the cold grind from the first day I drove it on a cold morning. The SS does this in several ratios, so I don't think it's one bad blocker ring causing it.

The problem may have started with the LS1 cars. So I guess my point here is none of the theories presented so far make sense to me, yet I have no explanation to offer either.