Engagement Teeth too worn?
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Engagement Teeth too worn? Hey All,
I am rebuilding my trans and was inspecting all the parts tonight. I am concerned about 2nd, 4th, and 5th gears as there seems to be more wear on the engagement teeth than should be. I would like to get some of your opinions, as I do not have experience in this. The attached pics are in order of the gears, 2, 4, & 5. The engagement teeth are not chipped--it's just the way the light hits certain ones. They are just worn and I'm trying to decide whether I need to replace them. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I am rebuilding my trans and was inspecting all the parts tonight. I am concerned about 2nd, 4th, and 5th gears as there seems to be more wear on the engagement teeth than should be. I would like to get some of your opinions, as I do not have experience in this. The attached pics are in order of the gears, 2, 4, & 5. The engagement teeth are not chipped--it's just the way the light hits certain ones. They are just worn and I'm trying to decide whether I need to replace them. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
The only thing 2nd is good for is faceplating. 4th should also be replaced and from the pic, appears to have some scoring on the cone face. If you're set on re-using it, I'd put the new blocker on it and measure per the Tremec spec. I wouldnt be surprised if the blocker drops down all the way to the synchro face. Really, since you're there, replace any gear with rounded synchro teeth. No sense in doing it twice.
Hey All,
I am rebuilding my trans and was inspecting all the parts tonight. I am concerned about 2nd, 4th, and 5th gears as there seems to be more wear on the engagement teeth than should be. I would like to get some of your opinions, as I do not have experience in this. The attached pics are in order of the gears, 2, 4, & 5. The engagement teeth are not chipped--it's just the way the light hits certain ones. They are just worn and I'm trying to decide whether I need to replace them. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I am rebuilding my trans and was inspecting all the parts tonight. I am concerned about 2nd, 4th, and 5th gears as there seems to be more wear on the engagement teeth than should be. I would like to get some of your opinions, as I do not have experience in this. The attached pics are in order of the gears, 2, 4, & 5. The engagement teeth are not chipped--it's just the way the light hits certain ones. They are just worn and I'm trying to decide whether I need to replace them. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
The best part of rebuilding yourself, if/when they do eventually become a problem, it's nothing but your time to replace them.
I wouldn't even bother trying to repoint them, that tends to cause more problems than solve unless done correctly. If what's said is correct and there's no chipping, it appears that they'll add a slight resistance to the shift, but the back-taper appears in good condition. It's still a good idea to check the new blocker ring on the cone for engagement. (I like the machinist-dye method)
http://www.rsgear.com/articles/2005_07.pdf
http://www.rsgear.com/articles/2000_03.pdf
If you're running a shop and warranty your work, this would definitely be a case to replace the gears. But if the OP is DIY, these gears can be reused with little to no issue. (When you DIY, you're less likely to complain to your rebuilder about every little thing.. ;-) )
http://www.rsgear.com/articles/2005_07.pdf
http://www.rsgear.com/articles/2000_03.pdf
If you're running a shop and warranty your work, this would definitely be a case to replace the gears. But if the OP is DIY, these gears can be reused with little to no issue. (When you DIY, you're less likely to complain to your rebuilder about every little thing.. ;-) )
Last edited by 85MikeTPI; Dec 14, 2011 at 12:36 PM.
IMO that 2nd gear is very questionable and if it were me I would replace it. IMO I would replace anything deemed questionable because I would not want to have to risk having to pull trannys out and take them apart any more than needed.
I recently rebuilt mine and all of the dog teeth on all the gears were perfect but the teeth in the 1st gear sliding syncro ring were rough while the 1st blocker ring teeth were also perfect. I figured the rough syncro ring teeth were accounting for why on occasion, it was very hard to shift into 1st gear when at a stop. Folks on the board also suggested it would be fine to reuse the questionable ring but I did not mind spending the money for a new ring because of the reason illustrated above.
I replaced the 1st gear syncro ring during the rebuild and to this day, it has never once refused to slide easily into 1st gear at a stop.
My 2 cents, replace anything questionable.
I recently rebuilt mine and all of the dog teeth on all the gears were perfect but the teeth in the 1st gear sliding syncro ring were rough while the 1st blocker ring teeth were also perfect. I figured the rough syncro ring teeth were accounting for why on occasion, it was very hard to shift into 1st gear when at a stop. Folks on the board also suggested it would be fine to reuse the questionable ring but I did not mind spending the money for a new ring because of the reason illustrated above.
I replaced the 1st gear syncro ring during the rebuild and to this day, it has never once refused to slide easily into 1st gear at a stop.
My 2 cents, replace anything questionable.
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Thanks for the replies, guys. If I go ahead and reuse the gears though, will I be causing my new synchros and blocker rings to prematurely wear? I don't want to spend $670 on parts for a stage 2 rebuild and have them wear out faster because of re-using old gears with worn engagement teeth.
And thanks for the articles posted, Mike. There's some really helpful info in there, everybody!
And thanks for the articles posted, Mike. There's some really helpful info in there, everybody!
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Once again guys, thanks for the responses!
On 4th, if the cone is worn to the point where the synchro drops down and bottoms out against the gear, it wont work. I cant remember but I think the spec is about .020 of clearance. If its much less, the blocker wont grip the gear properly and speed match wont occur, causing shift problems. In fact, check every blocker to gear for proper fit.
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Thanks, Dave. I actually went back and looked at 4th again and noticed some chipping/fragging on a few of the teeth I had not noticed before. I will probably just go ahead and replace it to be safe. The previous owner had mentioned that he had a 3-4 shift grind, so besides the synchros being shot, this may also be cause for it. If you look closely at that pic, you can also see where it had ground on the gear teeth themselves and started scoring the edges of them.
My next question for you all is, now it seems I will be replacing 4th, I will need to pull the old bearing off and press it on the new input shaft, correct? What's the best way to check and shim for proper endplay on the new shaft? Do I have to put the whole trans back together before I can check with a dial indicator?
Thanks everyone for your replies. They are much appreciated!
My next question for you all is, now it seems I will be replacing 4th, I will need to pull the old bearing off and press it on the new input shaft, correct? What's the best way to check and shim for proper endplay on the new shaft? Do I have to put the whole trans back together before I can check with a dial indicator?
Thanks everyone for your replies. They are much appreciated!
Last edited by Macs98Z; Dec 16, 2011 at 03:43 PM.
Thanks, Dave. I actually went back and looked at 4th again and noticed some chipping/fragging on a few of the teeth I had not noticed before. I will probably just go ahead and replace it to be safe. The previous owner had mentioned that he had a 3-4 shift grind, so besides the synchros being shot, this may also be cause for it. If you look closely at that pic, you can also see where he had ground on the gear teeth themselves and started scoring the edges of them.
My next question for you all is, now it seems I will be replacing 4th, I will need to pull the old bearing off and press it on the new input shaft, correct? What's the best way to check and shim for proper endplay on the new shaft? Do I have to put the whole trans back together before I can check with a dial indicator?
Thanks everyone for your replies. They are much appreciated!
My next question for you all is, now it seems I will be replacing 4th, I will need to pull the old bearing off and press it on the new input shaft, correct? What's the best way to check and shim for proper endplay on the new shaft? Do I have to put the whole trans back together before I can check with a dial indicator?
Thanks everyone for your replies. They are much appreciated!
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From: Central Ohio
Well, it's been a while but I wanted to update this for anyone's reference in the future. I decided to replace 2nd and 5th gears, and leave 4th alone (didn't want to have to fool with endplay, plus at the time I was ordering parts a new input shaft was on a month long back order). I put the trans back together and installed it in the car a few weeks ago. Since that time, I've put quite a few miles driving on it, and everything is great! I can't tell any hard shifting issues going into 4th like I thought I might have. Thanks for everyone's advice and help.
