DaytonaBlues

hey fellas, im sure you heard this bs a million times but i finnally landed a M6 Ls1 Z28 after 10 years of wanting one ($3800!!). car had a check engine light, ran like crap, fixed pcv leaky hose, done. NOW i have to deal with the the other reason the car was dirt cheap.

the car has a hurst billit shifter in it and the shifter is very hard to put into reverse, and KEEP it in reverse since it pops out of reverse if you dont hold it. first gear is also difficult to engage. shifting fast is out of the question.
the clutch also engages literally withing maybe 3 inches from the floor. the car has had a aftermarket clutch put it, although i didnt ask nor care which one considering the price of the car.

my question is....the clutch pedal is very loose meaning it moves down at least 4 inches before it moves the rod going to the master cylinder. It seems like the bushings at the pivot of the clutch pedal are very worn, especially when you push the clutch all the way in by hand and look at the rod, its not fully depressed into the floor. should the rod be pushed all they way into the master cylinder by the clutch with no exposed rod showing???
I already bought new bushings for the brake and clutch pivot GM part number 14046812.
any ideas out there???? im dying to get this damn car shifting fast and hard.

brigade24

a few questions..Is there a return spring at the top of the clutch pedal assembly? how does your clutch fluid look? Knowing the manufacturer of the clutch would be a plus as it would give me an idea of the required tolerances...

the popping out of reverse is an internal transmission issue...i don't remember for reverse but for the other gears, when the blocker rings or synchronizer hub groves are worn out...it will pop out of gear.

sicksspeed

iTrader: (2)

I also purchased a inexpensive 01 z that pops out of rev. the way you describe. Mine does this clunk sound if I let the clutch up slight enough to spin things in reverse like there is so play. I will be tearing down the trans sortly to see damage. I think the problem originated with a bad pilot bearing. In other words the input shaft dosn't stop turning. Could also be the clutch not fully releasing. Do this car running and push clutch once try 1st and rev. Then pump clutch couple times try gears. Also try other gears on one pump. This may help distinguish if it is clutch as original fault. Then while diff. engage shut of motor step on clutch and see how it feels.

brigade24

my trans was popping out of fourth last year at the track...when i pulled the transmission out...only the pilot bearing race was left and it was cracked in the middle all the way around...

sicksspeed

iTrader: (2)

. Your not saying
it poped out of gear do to the bad pilot are you? What cause the pop?

DaytonaBlues

It's a stock Tremec 6 speed with god knows what kinda clutch. There is the spring atvyhe top of the pedal. Fluid prollyvcould use a change. The pedal Is pretty damn hard though.I'm terrified about the trans internally being trashed. Like I said the clutch doesn't disengage until almost on the floor with the pedal. I dunno what else check, I did buy some new pivot bushings for the pedal since the pedal has some play in it. I don't know what else to check. You guys think the stops for the hurst billit shifter might be screwed up?. Maybe bleed the master?.
Oh yea, off topic totally, but what's a quick way tell if the limited slip is not killed too
Thanx all

sicksspeed

iTrader: (2)

Well to get this right I guess we need to figure out what was messed with. So much travel of the rod is wrong. Maybe I can take a picture of mine (pedal/rod) to compare. I had no clutch travel issues. I had no problem with anything but rev. grind/jump. BUT the root cause that the previous owner of my car had appears to have been the pilot bearing. Input shaft wasn't stopping and the guy just kept forcing things till bad damage has been done. So in your case you need to find the root cause first. As if you didn't know. But anyway I think you need to get clutch pedal travel issue looked at first. As if you didn't know. Then move on. I am not familuar with the shifter but is there any stop adjust for rev. But I don't think that's an issue. That would be about the only external thing to do about the jump out. Meaning you did not fully engage. Like I said I will be tearing mine down soon my trans has allready had rev. trashed. If you want priv. Mess me at 4 this afternoon east time to remind me if you want picture.

Scoobysnacks

iTrader: (1)

How many miles on the ODO?

This sounds like a clutch and hydraulic issue. I had a couple defective clutches over the past couple months and dealt with the same exact thing. The clutch is not fully disengaging is what it sound like to me.

Try these steps:
Shut the engine off and see if the car go through all gears smoothly with the clutch depressed. If it does its probably not a trans issue.
Start the car, parking brake off and foot off the brake. Move the shifter slowly toward first gear where you hit the point when you feel you have to force(grind) to get it the rest of the way but dont with just the car idling and see if the car starts moving forward before you get it in gear. If it does its clutch/hydraulic.

IMHO you should tear down and put all new hydraulics(master and slave) and new clutch kit and pilot bearing. Save yourself the headache and just replace it all. It sounds like you got a good deal so even if you have to spend another 1k on all that stuff you still got a car under 5k.

sicksspeed

iTrader: (2)

I agree with most of your thoughts scoob but I think daytona is looking to tread lightly being he may be in for a trans repair in addition to that clutch that I agree sounds Like he needs all of and on top of that he now is talking about rear issues. But if the rear is quite you can still drive. Besides isn't that rear a audburn or however you spell it. If that posi dosn't work it is in pieces. Great diag. discription scoob.

z_speedfreak

iTrader: (3)

hopefully its something more minor then what I had going on but it is another possibility that hasn't been mentioned. my car also wanted to pop out of reverse when I bought it and the previous owner had told me it was a factory nick on the gear and to hold it in gear. it started popping out more and more often as well as getting more violent, it would also make a grinding noise after popping out. sent it out for a rebuild when I couldn't even use reverse any more. turns out the rev synchro was blown and by trying to hold it in gear I chewed the **** out of the gear and needed a new one too. when they put it back together they also told me my factory hurst was all played out and was the likely culprit behind my problems(2nd gear synchro needed to be replaced as well). just throwing that out there GL man

sicksspeed

iTrader: (2)

that sounds like what I expect to find as far as damage in mine. Speed,what shifter did you replace the worn hurst with.

brigade24

last year at a lapping event, i was going down a back straight ...i was in 4th and as soon as i hit 5k it just popped out...shifted itself into neutral...it happened a few more times that day and i was left scratching my head...

I pulled my transmission this past winter, and didn't see a pilot bearing. the tip of the input shaft was all scratched up. The ring teeth on the input shaft had also seen better days so that was also changed...

the problem was that the tip of the input shaft was riding on the pilot bearing race which allowed the input shaft to move/tilt under hard acceleration...at the time my torque arm was mounted on the tail shaft of my transmission which made matters worse because it would cause further movement of the input shaft. over time, this excess movement/tilting caused the input shaft ring teeth to wear as the pressure being applied to the ring teeth and synchro hub assembly increased friction. so at high rpm, the syncro hub could not hold on to the input shaft ring teeth...so it would pop out of gear.

Many of you know this but for those that don't, in the T56 your input shaft is essentially 4th gear. So that's why my transmission was only popping out of 4th...

brigade24

start with the fluid change and see how the pedal feels...seals inside your MC might be toast.

sicksspeed

iTrader: (2)

Ah yes makes perfect sense now. Grasshopper go away happy and enlitened. Thanks for the wakeup.

sicksspeed

iTrader: (2)

Brigade24, did you use the needle bearing type again or a bronze?

DaytonaBlues

Thanks for all the help guys, the car has 111k on it, and the car doesn't actually pop out of.reverse or any ggear once its in there, the problem is getting the car into reverse and first. Reverse will grind while I try to back up. First doesn't grind at all. I'm seriously thinkin that since the pedal travels up only 5 inches or less b4 the clutch engages is the problem, meaning it feels.like.the clutch isn't fully released when I push the pedal down.
That being said, I tried what scoop said and the car doesn't move at all when forcing the car in get at idle without the clutch engaged. What would you guys advise.me.to do to diagnose or help the problem. In other words, what steps would u guys take etc. I just got the car and have not messed with the clutch or trans. Thanks so much.

z_speedfreak

iTrader: (3)

pro 5.0 w/ the hurst stick. LOVE the combo!

sicksspeed

iTrader: (2)

Knowing what I know now about your car and all, sounds like scoob nailed it if you want to try master only first I wouldn't think that would be a bad idea. But don't keep fighting it.

FOSTER21

Sounds like the pads on the shift forks are wore out or possibly gone. Believe it or not these trans are very simple on the inside. order some brass shift pads from D&D and a blocker ring kit. And instal a new pilot bearing while ur at it. You can find all the diagrams u need on the web. If you have decent mechanical knowledge you can handle this

across281

hey guys wonder if yall can help me just today mine started having trouble gettin in 1st the car moves forward when you hit the point where it wants to slide into gear, reverse has been finicky for about a month maybe more, just replaced my tranny fluid a week ago, clutch fluid seems okay, anything i can do to put off this off for like 2 months cause this is my DD maybe a pro 5.0??