Spec 3 or Monster 3 Clutch..
12-11-2012, 11:16 AM
#21
BULLLSHITT. it was SPEC who recommended the 2+ for my car based on mods, HP/TQ. You always point to the consumer for fault. FW flatness, break-in had nothing to do with the wear I experienced with the 2+. The 2+ simply did not hold up to the use it was claimed to be good for PERIOD.
You frequent this and other boards but please stop implying constantly the fault of SPEC product failure is always the consumer.
Yes racing will take it's toll on any part. The 2+ simply, for me, did not live up to it. I have another manufacturer clutch now that is fine and has outlasted the 2+ by years, same car/motor,track, launch RPM...
12-11-2012, 12:24 PM
#22
******, I simply explained the potential for causes that can lead to issues like you experienced. If memory serves you never sent your parts in for assessment when you had an issue...but when it comes to a clutch assmebly, functionality and proper build are pretty simple concepts and easy things to check. BTW, actuation, clamp-load, geometry are all checked before we ever ship a part to insure that the customer will receive a part that is within tollerance.
You apparently feel the need to negate and accuse regularly (agenda?) and you always fault me for answering. It seems that I have just as much right to respond as you do to post.
You apparently feel the need to negate and accuse regularly (agenda?) and you always fault me for answering. It seems that I have just as much right to respond as you do to post.
12-11-2012, 01:51 PM
#23
Jeremy
I don't have any "agenda' negatively towards you or SPEC. In fact my experience with SPEC customer service has been very good. Now that you suggest I am negatively going after you and SPEC here is what happened to me which I have never posted.
In my case the SPEC 2+ I received new was not to "spec" as you state. "BTW, actuation, clamp-load, geometry are all checked before we ever ship a part to insure that the customer will receive a part that is within tollerance". The clutch kit arrived with the PP face at an angle. SPEC promply replaced it but the point is this kit was not "inspected" nor was it damaged in shipping. It was assembled poorly and not checked.
My "point" was your recommendation to the OP in this thread was to use a 2+. In my opinion that clutch disc material is not suited for drag track use as mine did not hold up past one season that is all. My $02 would be to use your 3+ if clutch dumps with a tire at a track are intended use.
the only direct PM thread we had was about what if anything SPEC does to modify the clamp load of the LT 1 PP. In that case you replied with vague info saying "that is like Col Sanders giving away his chicken recepie". You did send a pic suggesting a device that reads PP clamp loads. My research of the company that manufactures the device in the picture stated it was a rivet press. Since the info you provided to me, in my eyes, did not check out I went with another clutch company.
I never posted this and don't have any agenda against SPEC other than you have a consistant reply regarding customers clutch failures as being due to install or use errors. yes improper installor break-in will lead to clutch issues but for many of us who pain stakenly work on our cars in detail most often better than "qualified shops" take issue with those comments. If SPEC or any company, for example, says a FW is "neutral" balance I take it to a machine shop to confirm. In that case, and not the SPEC FW, it was not and the machine shop did zero balance it.
I understand performance mods and the use they experience under track conditions do wear and will destroy parts. That is part of the game and when my 2+ failed it was over a year old and I chalked it up to wear & tear of an item that unfortunately did not live up to the HP/TQ ratings it was offerd under. I did not feel compelled to slam you or SPEC on any forum about it, just moved on. I only posted the pics in this thread to show the wear the 2+ disc had under my use condition and stated "I" would use either another brand clutch or a SPEC product like the 3+
Now when I post my personal comments you take offense. Understand I to am etitled to my opinion about my experience with SPEC parts, that is all.
I don't have any "agenda' negatively towards you or SPEC. In fact my experience with SPEC customer service has been very good. Now that you suggest I am negatively going after you and SPEC here is what happened to me which I have never posted.
In my case the SPEC 2+ I received new was not to "spec" as you state. "BTW, actuation, clamp-load, geometry are all checked before we ever ship a part to insure that the customer will receive a part that is within tollerance". The clutch kit arrived with the PP face at an angle. SPEC promply replaced it but the point is this kit was not "inspected" nor was it damaged in shipping. It was assembled poorly and not checked.
My "point" was your recommendation to the OP in this thread was to use a 2+. In my opinion that clutch disc material is not suited for drag track use as mine did not hold up past one season that is all. My $02 would be to use your 3+ if clutch dumps with a tire at a track are intended use.
the only direct PM thread we had was about what if anything SPEC does to modify the clamp load of the LT 1 PP. In that case you replied with vague info saying "that is like Col Sanders giving away his chicken recepie". You did send a pic suggesting a device that reads PP clamp loads. My research of the company that manufactures the device in the picture stated it was a rivet press. Since the info you provided to me, in my eyes, did not check out I went with another clutch company.
I never posted this and don't have any agenda against SPEC other than you have a consistant reply regarding customers clutch failures as being due to install or use errors. yes improper installor break-in will lead to clutch issues but for many of us who pain stakenly work on our cars in detail most often better than "qualified shops" take issue with those comments. If SPEC or any company, for example, says a FW is "neutral" balance I take it to a machine shop to confirm. In that case, and not the SPEC FW, it was not and the machine shop did zero balance it.
I understand performance mods and the use they experience under track conditions do wear and will destroy parts. That is part of the game and when my 2+ failed it was over a year old and I chalked it up to wear & tear of an item that unfortunately did not live up to the HP/TQ ratings it was offerd under. I did not feel compelled to slam you or SPEC on any forum about it, just moved on. I only posted the pics in this thread to show the wear the 2+ disc had under my use condition and stated "I" would use either another brand clutch or a SPEC product like the 3+
Now when I post my personal comments you take offense. Understand I to am etitled to my opinion about my experience with SPEC parts, that is all.
12-11-2012, 02:06 PM
#24
I don't take any offense to your post at all and I fully understand that you are entitled to and opinion and I am entitled to reply. If you had an issue with a plate I apologize and I am glad that we got you taken care of.
Additionally, if you bought a flywheel and clutch together they would have been balanced as an assembly (the balance for this is applied to the pressure-plate). Your post isn't exactly clear relative to your flywheel woes, but it doesn't appear that this was relative to our part.
As for my responses, I reply with potential causes and if there is an issue (no matter what the cause) I am always more than willing to take a look at the parts via an RMA. If there is an issue with the parts that we provide I do my very best to remedy this as quickly as possible (your experience indicates this too).
You had a clutch in the car for over a year, and based on your response you seem to indicate that is was used aggressively over that time. Clutches are a wear item (as you note) and as I noted originally, usage plays a part in wear and tear!
As for the info I have provided in threads and via PM about the LT1, I don't understand how you can mistake a load-cell for a rivet press. I have both here and they are quite different. In fact, I have provided pictures (in a thread on this site) of the load-cell clearly showing one of our plates on the same machine with their asociated clamp-loads (with reference to the standard clamp-load for a stock LT1 plate for comparison). I have no reason to lie about this and I still say that the things that we do to increase clamp-load are a lot like the Col.'s secret recipe! You certainly have every right to buy whatever you like but now you seem to be calling me a liar and that simply isn't the case.
Here is a link to the thread I am referencing:
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13552574394952
Additionally, if you bought a flywheel and clutch together they would have been balanced as an assembly (the balance for this is applied to the pressure-plate). Your post isn't exactly clear relative to your flywheel woes, but it doesn't appear that this was relative to our part.
As for my responses, I reply with potential causes and if there is an issue (no matter what the cause) I am always more than willing to take a look at the parts via an RMA. If there is an issue with the parts that we provide I do my very best to remedy this as quickly as possible (your experience indicates this too).
You had a clutch in the car for over a year, and based on your response you seem to indicate that is was used aggressively over that time. Clutches are a wear item (as you note) and as I noted originally, usage plays a part in wear and tear!
As for the info I have provided in threads and via PM about the LT1, I don't understand how you can mistake a load-cell for a rivet press. I have both here and they are quite different. In fact, I have provided pictures (in a thread on this site) of the load-cell clearly showing one of our plates on the same machine with their asociated clamp-loads (with reference to the standard clamp-load for a stock LT1 plate for comparison). I have no reason to lie about this and I still say that the things that we do to increase clamp-load are a lot like the Col.'s secret recipe! You certainly have every right to buy whatever you like but now you seem to be calling me a liar and that simply isn't the case.
Here is a link to the thread I am referencing:
http://api.viglink.com/api/click?for...13552574394952
Last edited by SPEC-01; 12-11-2012 at 02:38 PM.
12-11-2012, 02:20 PM
#25
I used the Spec 3 Clutch in my '12 5.0, But it was supercharged. I like the spec for that car. When I put another clutch in the SS I will go with the Monster. Not because I don't like Spec, But I have heard great things about the Monster. Just my 2cents.
12-13-2012, 11:40 AM
#26
I am not nor did I call you a liar. You provided me with some info, I checked it out and came to some diffrent conclusions based on what the manufacturing company of the equipment you showed me was, that is all. If there is a discrepancy on what equipment you have and what I understand it to be fine. My point is what I was able to access is something different that you describe. I left it alone and moved on.
The method I have personally seen at another clutch manufacturing shop to increase clamp loads was to dissassemble the PP (LT1) and heat the diaphram and add more angle to the fingers. If this is how SPEC does it also, fine. This other company advertised their clutches had been modified for more clamp load as SPEC does but was very willing to show me and invited me to come to their shop to seee how and also how they measure the B/A loads.
You work for and represent SPEC. Obviously your opinions about clutches are biased to SPEC as they should be, no problem. Please understand there are many people who have used your product and found them to not live up to their advertised/claimed TQ & HP ratings. this would apply to other clutch manufacturers also. So when someone who has used the product expresses their personal finding respect their positions. I do agree that comments made by people who have never used SPEC or another clutch but post negative opinions based on hearsay are BS....but its the internet....
The OP asks about Monster and SPEC. I have no direct experience with Monster so did not reply as to that. My reply was not supporting your recomendation on the 2+....not SAYING NOT TO USE spec AT ALL.
12-14-2012, 09:47 AM
#27
I suppose it's all about perception ***** and we see things differently. I'm sorry the 2+ didn't work out for you and I hate that you feel it was an inherent issue with the part. There are countless folks that have had great results with the 2+ (I have used the stage in my last 4 cars and been very happy with it). Of course, I'm sure that the fact that I work for SPEC means that my personal experience is biased and unacceptable as support of the quality and durability of the product. I assure you, if I didn't think that the 2+ would support the OP's needs (or similar needs of other board members) I wouldn't have recommended it.
As for increasing clamp-load there are nuances to this that are specific to each company that actually build/modify their plates for increased clamp-load. Some people replace diaphragms, some chamfer the plate or modify the pivot/fulcrum, etc...and some do nothing (taking a part out of a box, spray-painting it "their color" and putting it in a box with their name on it).
For the LT1, many clutch companies fall into the category of doing nothing and this is mostly related to the pull-type nature of the pressure-plate. I've provided a picture of our plate on a load-cell (clearly not a rivet press) and have shown what we acheive. Surely you understand the reservation associated with telling you, or anyone else for that matter, the specifics of how we acheive it. Or, maybe you don't and that's the issue alltogther! Either way, good luck to you...I'm glad that you have found something that you are happy with.
As for increasing clamp-load there are nuances to this that are specific to each company that actually build/modify their plates for increased clamp-load. Some people replace diaphragms, some chamfer the plate or modify the pivot/fulcrum, etc...and some do nothing (taking a part out of a box, spray-painting it "their color" and putting it in a box with their name on it).
For the LT1, many clutch companies fall into the category of doing nothing and this is mostly related to the pull-type nature of the pressure-plate. I've provided a picture of our plate on a load-cell (clearly not a rivet press) and have shown what we acheive. Surely you understand the reservation associated with telling you, or anyone else for that matter, the specifics of how we acheive it. Or, maybe you don't and that's the issue alltogther! Either way, good luck to you...I'm glad that you have found something that you are happy with.
