whip8888

Hey everyone,
I did a search and couldn't come up with my symptoms so here it goes.

This is my first T56 car and I bought it at the end of last summer so I'm not too familiar with the normal "rattle" that comes from a T56
Before I put her away for the winter I noticed a rattle that sounded like a throw out bearing issue, so I pulled the tranny and changed the TOB and the pilot bearing along with the rear main seal. During the winter I also installed an MGW Shifter (which from what I've read also rattles)

So anyway, Now that I have everything back in, all of my old rattles are gone but now I get a loud rattle that comes all the way thru my shifter and it only happens during a down shift while reengaging the clutch (letting my foot off) . All shifting feels normal. No gears are grinding and the clutch is not slipping. Just a super annoying loud rattle during the down shift. and by the way the MGW shifter buzzes if i rest my hand on it while cruising in 6th gear so I am assuming that that is the rattle that is normal with this shifter.

Does anyone else experiance this or should I get ready to pull the tranny out again
Thanks in advance

ElQueFør

Can you post up a video? Hard to talk about noises over the internet as they are all subjective.

I recently finished building a T56 hybrid utilizing a SSR 32 spline mainshaft. While I was building the trans up I elected to shim it tighter than Tremec spec. So far it's paid off because the trans is silent. It doesn't even make the common T56 neutral rollover rattle noise.

Some noise will be normal and not cause for concern.

I also have an MGW shifter. It transmits a little bit of noise.

whip8888

i won't be able to get a video up tonight but i will take her for a ride tomorrow

how much of a difference did you notice noise wise between your stock shifter and the mgw
im thinking tomorrow about switching back to stock to see the difference
this is literally the first time i have driven my car in about 6 months so i dont remember how much noise came in before

ElQueFør

The difference noise wise between stock shifters and this MGW that I have is almost unnoticeable. Only the very slightest buzz kind of sound comes through with the MGW. The stock T56 shifters are rubber isolated so they soak up alot of that noise.

What you have may be neutral rollover rattle. Some describe it as a kind of marbles in a can sort of sound. Provided it isn't extremely loud and doesn't get louder it is not cause for concern in the slightest.

Tremec seems to have shimmed the T56 on the loose side. If you search around here you can find threads where people explained this and talked about experimenting with tighter shimming to help alleviate it.

I have been beating on T56s for almost a decade now and they all made the typical neutral rollover rattle. This T56 hybrid I built is silent. For now. It may open up with mileage and start to "sing" a little bit but if it does I'm not worried about it.

whip8888

OK so I tried to get a video but you can't hear the rattle over my exhaust plus the road noise that my car makes.
One thing I noticed tonight is that the car needs to warm up in order to rattle. and if I tap the gas the right way I can get it to do it in neutral as long as the clutch is engaged. If I put the clutch to the floor there is no rattle. Since everything else is new I'm beginning to think that it might be my input shaft.
Or is this the neutral rollover rattle that I have been reading about?

Next weekend I'm going to change my trans mount and see if anything gets better. my tranny seems to move around quite a bit.
One more thing is that this T56 is an oldie it's not a Tremec it's still a Borg Warner. I'm not sure if that makes a difference. I'm pretty sure it's the same transmission.

Crf450r420

iTrader: (1)

Find a friend with editing software if you can. The good software will let you turn up different frequencies and might allow you to get a video of the noise. Just a thought.

ElQueFør

Whip, it's hard to say for sure over the internet what that noise you're experiencing might be. Especially without a video for us to check.

I would not beat myself up over it though man. The T56 is a great trans but tends to be kind of noisy and notchy. It's just the nature of the beast.

Is this an LS or LT car?

whip8888

The car is an LT1
Im going to try to record it again tomorrow night. Between my wife's shifts and 2 young children it's hard to get out in the garage when i want.

as for the trans itself, yes I think you're right it is great.
My shifts are perfect and it seems to run great
this may just be a noise I that I have to deal with til I put a new clutch in

What fluid are you running in you're trans?
I put in no name Dex III that the people at the store assured me was made by Valvoline
I cant believe how hard it was to find a name brand in the town I live in

ElQueFør

LT1 makes me wonder about the clutch fork itself, the TOB, the T bolt on the fork, the snapring for the TOB...

I just use Oreilly house brand ATF

If it ain't broke......

whip8888

Ok guys it's a little hard to hear but listen for the growl
It seems a lot louder when you in the car
Anybody heard anything like this before?

ElQueFør

The main thing I hear is the rumble of your exhaust... I do hear some of the trans noise you mention. It kinda sounds like the internals of the trans speeding up and slowing down as you engage/disengage the clutch. To a degree, this will be normal.

Perhaps your shims in the T56 have just loosened up a little since it was built. This is why many on here, myself included have shimmed them tighter when building them up.

I honestly wouldn't worry about this. A manual trans is going to make noise, no way around it. How much is acceptable will depend on many factors. If you can, get a video under the car on jackstands with someone engaging/disengaging the clutch in the car.

I really don't think you got a problem here though.

whip8888

I really appreciate you taking the time out to give it a listen.
I figure I will just keep an eye on her and in about 3 or 4 years when it's time for a new clutch I will crack her open and rebuild her
Thanks again

ElQueFør

You're welcome. Let us know.

BALLSS

+1 on not really hearing abnormal. You have replaced the T.O. & pilot bearing so those are not a source.

The T56 often has what is referred to as "marbles in a can" sound while in neutral, engine running, clutch out. That sound would go away as soon as you push in clutch and or the trans is engaged in any gear.

Regular old DEX 3 is what Tremac says to use in T56 pre 2000 ish (not sure exact year) as they had paper blocking rings and newer ones have carbon ones IIRC. The later are OK with synthetics but the paper ones were reported to break down with synthetics over extended periods of use. If the T56 was rebuilt it would have the newer carbon ones in it.

I bought my T56 for my LT1 in 2005 new so synthetic is OK. Redline D4 fluid. Smooth & quiet

whip8888

I bought the car at the end of last summer, so I don't know if the trans was ever rebuilt.
What I do know is that the trans says Borg Warner on it and as for fluid it says Dex 2E
So from that I have to assume that it has the old paper blockers

As for the can of marbles sound, Yes I definitely get that and as soon as I disengage the clutch it goes away, but it's not very loud and you really have to listen for it. The rattle I get is while reengaging the clutch during a down shift and it's pretty noticeable but ElQueFør has made me feel better about it.
I bet that if I still had the stock shifter on I probably wouldn't have noticed it. Or I wouldn't have worried as much.

ElQueFør

Borg designed the T56 then sold the rights to it to Tremec.

Whatever you do man, don't beat yourself up over it!

Run that ******' T56 till it pops. Then, take it out to figure out why and beef it up while you're in there. There are only a couple little pain in the *** things about T56 rebuilds. Everything else as far as rebuilding one is cake.

The thing I like most is the case slides down over the main 1-4 gearset like a shirt. As opposed to the old school 4 speeds which are like building a ship in a ******' bottle!

Firebrian

Sounds like you have the regular neutral rollover noise AND maybe something else. My '99 T56 is all original at 19K miles. I get the "whirring" sound in neutral with clutch engaged. But I never get any noise during down shifts. I do however get more "marbles in the can" when pushing above 3,000-3,500 rpm. I took it to a well respected transmission guru who test drove it with me. He didn't think there was anything unusual with my T56.

Rockland Standard Gear has some old articles on neutral gear rollover. And the classic symptom is noise under 2,000-2500 rpm. As soon as the trans gets loaded with higher rpm to keep the gears from rattling it should go away. Mine doesn't.

Unless youre MGW shifter is specifically sound isolated on the shaft (not likely), it's going to rattle up into your hand. And feeling more rattle as you push on the shifter handle is normal. With a standard GM shifter the shifter rattle is essentially gone. But any hard mounted after-market shifter is going to rattle. I have a semi-stock Hurst and it rattles. I was able to cut the noise in half by doing a little sound isolating on the metal to metal shifter handle/stem. I also put additional insulation around the shifter mechanism under the console. If you don't have a rubber boot under the console, or didn't put the old one back down with full circumference adhesion, you'll get more noise transmitted up into the shifter handle and into the cab. Figure your shifter handle is a megaphone. And metal to metal parts all the way up on after market shifters means more noise.

If someone did anything to your engine to add hp, or upgrade the clutch, etc....those are other ways to get more noise into your shifter handle. The factory did a lot of things to minimize that noise...many of the sacrificing performance or "feel." Adding a simple paper or thin rubber gasket on your shifter handle coupling will reduce noise. And if you have metal threads in your shifter ball/handle that's a source too. Even shifter ***** like the Hurst plastic 'cue *****' are known to transmit sound too well.

ElQueFør

Many on this forum are of the opinion that Tremec set the endplay and preload too loose to begin with. I'm one of them. The expansion of the case when heated coupled with some mileage means things are going to rattle with their spec. It's not a problem just slightly annoying.

The T56 hybrid I finished a month or two ago is still super quiet. I shimmed it tighter than what Tremec calls for and it is virtually silent, no rollover rattle whatsoever. Even with an MGW shifter on it you can just barely detect a slight buzz coming from the shfiter if you really really listen for it.