I am installing a new Tick clutch master cylinder. Car has the original OEM slave and clutch.

When I reconnected the MC hydraulic line back into the slave there was not a distinct "click" and it looks to me like it may not be in all the way?

I cannot push the connector in further, and it feels pretty snug when tug on it. There also appears to be some fluid between the metal fitting and the white plastic clip, but no dripping.

I have NOT turned on the car yet and the pedal is firm when I push lightly on it by hand, same as when I finished bench bleeding in car.

Before I take the next steps, does the plastic clip look like it's in all the way? If not, how do I get this to connect fully? Is there supposed to be a "click"?

 

It looks pretty good. The click is slight. With a removal tool, you should be able to gently pop it off and put it back on again and go slow to feel the fingers grab. This shows a similar view as you have: https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/13...clutch-master/

 

Thanks. I disconnected and reconnected the line (Lisle 37000 A/C line disconnect tool set) and better this time. Although it is inserted to about the same depth, there was a definitely a "subtle click" and this time there is no brake fluid under the white plastic clip.

The concern now is that the pedal only moves an inch or so with reasonable force (car still turned off). I am afraid to push too hard and damage the MC seals. When the hydraulic line was disconnected, the pedal would barely move (i.e. line closed and properly bled).

I am wondering what could be preventing the pedal from freely moving? I didn't think it was like brakes, where the pedal loosens when the car is turned on and gets some boost.

 

Its not boosted, so the pedal is independent of the car being on. Did you change anything on the transmission or did you just swap the M/C? If the later, maybe there is something binding on the physical pedal? Did you remove the clutch pedal return spring per the Tick instructions? (A lot of times during stock driving, that spring breaks and leaves some metal crap hanging around.)

 

Update: I let the car sit for a week, checked the pedal, and apparently the quick connect "seated" itself and there fluid flow. Didn't even need to bleed the slave to get great pedal feel.

The car still won't go into gear after it gets warmed up, even after adjusting the pedal to several different heights, but the pedal no longer sticks half way up

Trying to figure out next steps...

Before the hydraulic related symptoms, the clutch felt very solid. And from what I am reading, the slave doesn't sound like a common issue.

 

Did you change anything other than the M/C? Did you change anything else with the OEM clutch, slave, etc?

What caused you to change the M/C in the first place? Has the car been sitting for a prolonged period of time?

 

Great questions:
1. Only changed the M/C.
2. It is the original OEM clutch, slave, etc. with 76k.
3. Original Symptoms: Initially was just pedal sticking (appears to be fixed by M/C replacement); then it started to intermittently not go into gear (mostly when warmed up).
4. The car had been driving weekly it's entire life (I have owned since 1999) until this clutch issue. I parked it when in March when I could no longer get in gear and finally got time to mess with it over Thanksgiving.

Additional info:
5. Fluid was original until this M/C change, aside form a few occasional Ranger method swaps.
6. Have never bled via the slave bleeder. Currently the pedal feels great, so does not seem like there is air.
7. Car is generally driven lightly. Not a drag racer, did some occasional AutoX early on, but not with this car since 2012.

 

So, the shifting problem predated your M/C change?

If so, does the transmission shift normally when the car is off? Is the shifting problem only happening when the clutch and transmission are warmed up? When the car doesn't go into gear, are you just living in neutral? Do you hear any noises? Can you get it into gear with force?

(As pointed out above, the car warming up should not have anything to do with the master or slave cylinders.)

 

1. So, the shifting problem predated your M/C change? Correct, both symptoms pre-dated M/C change. Sticky pedal came first, followed several months later by not going into gear, at which point I parked the car until now.

2. If so, does the transmission shift normally when the car is off? Yes, with car off it shifts normal with car off (even if clutch is not depressed). This is similar to my other cars that are not broken

3. Is the shifting problem only happening when the clutch and transmission are warmed up? At this time, it does occur cold, but seems to get worse warmed up (see #5). Prior to M/C change, the sticky pedal/shifting problems typically occurred after warmed up; say ~15 min of driving or even just idling.

4. When the car doesn't go into gear, are you just living in neutral? I have not actually driven the car since M/C change due to the shifting issue. I am just turning in on in the garage on a QuickJack and trying to shift into gear. So yes, basically living in N.

5. Do you hear any noises? Can you get it into gear with force? Sometimes I can force it in once or twice with mild force, then it quickly worsens will not go in with force. And if If i do try to force it in, I start to hear a mild screeching sound and I stop immediately. Otherwise, no noises.

 

I have done the Tick Master twice.

The first car I was in your situation. The clutch was "Sticky" or "Spongey" with quick shifting or if I ran the gears all the way up to redline. When I did this installation I bench bled the unit. I filled the unit full of fluid and put the end of the line in the fluid while simultaneously depressing the fitting at the end and pushing the rod in to activate the system. (<--- does that make sense? I know what Im trying to say) and I did this until I saw absolutely no more bubbles of air coming out. Then I kind of took it back apart from the reservoir to make installation easier.

The Second time it was when I did it was when I did a clutch with a new master that had the speed bleeder. That is way easier but you are in the first example territory.

Super important about these installations is to make sure that it is properly bled and that it is adjusted appropriately. In my experience with factory clutch, LS7 clutch and a Monster twin disc, the clutch pedal always was below the brake pedal but perfectly adjusted where it should be. Pedal feel is always the same, easy but does have resistance.

 

Just this point alone sounds like the unit is not adjusted properly.

Watch this video from Tick :

 

I think there is something beyond the M/C going on but would guess that the sticky pedal was probably the M/C and trust the new unit will fix that.

I would start by confirming proper adjustment as suggested above ^. Then try to isolate if the problem is the clutch of the transmission.

My suggestion would be to try starting the car in-gear with the clutch in and then have someone watch the wheels. (If you are still up on a jack.) If the clutch is stuck to the flywheel, then the rear wheels will move. (If you were on the ground then the car would buck.)

 

My suggestion would be to try starting the car in-gear with the clutch in and then have someone watch the wheels. (If you are still up on a jack.) If the clutch is stuck to the flywheel, then the rear wheels will move. (If you were on the ground then the car would buck.)

Reporting back - I tried adjusting the rod to various pedal heights ranging from 1/2 way to floor to just above the brake pedal, one turn at a time, and did not find a pedal height that eliminated the issue. I also did the test with car on lift, started with clutch down in-gear, and the wheels do turn (the speedo also dials upward accordingly). So the clutch is just not disengaging fully.

 

This is something and probably needs to be addressed before you can finetune your hydraulics. If it started after the car had been sitting, then I'd suspect something easy like the clutch rusting to the flywheel. But if you were having the shifting problem when you parked the car, the sticking clutch probably started at that point.

I would expect a problem with the slave cylinder to cause a hydraulic (obvious) mess. So, perhaps there is a problem with the pressure plate where the slave can't engage it properly to release the clutch?

76K isn't bad for an OEM clutch. I got 90K miles out of my original clutch only daily driving.

 

Ya, the shifting problem started before I parked the car (i.e.was the reason I parked it). And here in AZ, in a garage, there is basically no humidity to cause rusting/sticking.

No slave cylinder mess on the bell housing. And there has been no loss of fluid in the reservoir.

So this weekend, after input from Tick, I tried a MityVac bleed at the reservoir:
The results were surprising. Upon pulling 10-in Hg, there was a continuous stream of large bubbles regularly spaced at about 2" apart in the clear tubing coming out of the reservoir. This continued until the gauge dropped to 4.5-in and the bubbles stopped. I held this this vacuum for about 30min and no more bubbles....until I pumped it up to 10-in again and the large repeating bubbles returned.

I did this several times and ended on a 4.5-in vacuum with no bubbles. But if I had pulled 10-in again, there would have been more bubbles.

And one interesting thing was that the MityVac catch can captured about 1 oz of fluid, most of which was new clean fluid, but some of the old residual fluid from the slave also made it's way up into the catch can.

Then I did the same shift test as before: Car in the air, engine on, depress clutch pedal, engage the gears...and it was good for a few cycles through all the gears (including R)!! But after 3 cycles it would no longer engage any gear.

Seems like air must be getting into the system. So I checked under the MC and under the car and at the hose quick connector and everything is dry.

Still confused. Was really hoping the new Tick MC would solve the problem since my symptoms are text book. Pressure plate appears to be a potential.

The worst part is that my driveway is narrow and steep, so getting the car onto a tow truck could be tricky....if it it gets to that.

 

Yes, there is a BIG difference between 4 and 10. At 10 in., you are pulling air in through the M/C seals - the vacuum is too aggressive. 3-4 in is just about right and will get the trapped air out. Once the air stops at 4 in, you can rest easy that the job is done.


It does sound like you have something uncommon going on with the clutch, not related to the hydraulics. The tragedy of these cars is that there is no inspection window to look in and see if the clutch is moving and disengaging from the flywheel.

 

EDIT: the MityVac + testing with the car on the ground (not on lift) seems to have been the trick. For the moment, upon a quick test, the car now shifts into gear and I did the Tick "rev test" and no bucking. Will adjust the clutch and do some tests in my driveway before venturing out of it.


OK, good to know about the 4" vs. 10". I saw a lot of folks mentioning 11 to 12" as the upper bound, so I thought 10" would be safe. Oops.

You have been very helpful and I really appreciate the input.

Tomorrow I am going to test it with the car on the ground based on Tick's suggestion. They said having no resistance at the wheels can skew the results. I am slightly hopeful since the last test (post MityVac) was an improvement (since it did go into all the gears for a bit). I am thinking that maybe only the right wheel (the one I couldn't see) was rotating during the test causing it to not go into gear.

 

Great news. I'm sure you will be fine.

... I just had a thought that having your parking brake on would have also eliminated this problem (This is something I typically do before I go on the lift.)