is it bad for my car to shift sans clutch? As in RPM matching? somethign i've just been toying with around town. Maybe a way to reduce clutch wear?

 

If you are an expert, yeah go for it. I used to do it in my Supra. If not, don't even try it. Get a beater and practice. One misplaced throw could mean death for your synchros.

 

How do you shift without the clutch? I know you have to rev match, but how the hell do you manage to rev match fast enough as to not hinder the car's acceleration?

 

You may be very good at rev matching and get the box to last but you will never match consistently enough to save serious wear on your synchros. Save a clutch/ trash a trans. Does not sound like a good way to go to me.

 

The synchros see use whether the clutch is engaged or disengaged. My vote is that if you're good enough to do it smoothly (i.e. the car isn't lurching every time you change gears), it isn't going to hurt it enough to make a difference...

 

Actually, shifting against a clutch even if its only partially driving & unmatched is always going to cause more wear than disengaging the clutch. Do what you like, but trans shops love the rev-match work.

 

I agree with calhoon. Besides, 95% or more of clutch disc wear occurs when transitioning from a stop to motion. (ie 1st and reverse)

 

WTF are you talking about.Why would you try to shift with no clutch.Power shifting-holding that gas pedal to the floor and never lifting off during a speed shift to the next gear- that should good enough for you.Unless you want to buying a new tranny.The fact that you are a little unsure tells me that you should NOT even think about shifting with no clutch.

 

I think the basis of the conversation is that it IS possible to shift without a clutch during normal driving. If you have ever driven, or been in a semi-truck, you could see that they go through the gears without engaging the clutch. They only use the clutch to get the truck moving. I don't think those trannys have synchros though...

 

There is a diffence between POWER shitfting (Foot to floor, SLAM into gear). Once in a while I REV match my shifts.....if done properly the stick will fall right into place and then you continue with you excelleration.....It like shifting with the clutch, only no clutch. Go through the same motions, just not engaging or disengaging the clutch......

 

Fine for regular driving (assuming youre good at clutchless shifting) but bad for racing. The idea is to let the engine rpms naturally fall down to a point where theyre matched with the rotation of the wheels in the next gear (upshift rev-matching). You can try it yourself: I think its easiest from 3 to 4. If you take 3rd gear up to 2500 rpm or so, gently let off the gas while applying light pressure to the shifter, as you let off the gas the shifter will release the stick into neutral. Now as the rpms slowly fall (foot still rolling off the gas ever so lightly) apply pressure to the stick towards fourth gear. As the engine rpms drop past 1900 rpm, fourth gear should "accept" the stick and it will easily go into gear without much effort. It takes a while to develop a feel for the right ammount of pressure. Too much and you force it into gear before its ready. Too little pressure and when the rpms match, the stick wont fully fall into the next gear and it will lightly grind.

 

so is it bad to not use the clutch when just going form a gear to neutral?

 

Doesn't hurt a thing.

 

In my old Nissan I did clutchless shifting quite a bit. I learned about it from a trucker and after awhile did it all the time. Can't race with it I don't think, because it's just at certain RPM's. I doubt it saves that much wear because you can't go from neutral to 1, I usually did it to impress my friends. I don't think going from gear to neutral without the clutch is bad either.

 

yea, it seems just a fun way to screw around and test my driving ability. Don't wanna wear out my synchros prematurely tho, so i'll stick w/ the clutch. thanks guys, this board rules!

 

POWER shifting is good enough for me.

 

There is nothing wrong with doing this during normal driving... if you're good at it. I do it quite frequently when I get really lazy and don't feel like using the clutch. LOL I learned to do it by driving semi's though, so I've had quite a bit of experience. It can be alot of fun to do, especially downshifting.... sounds cool too once you get the hang of it. Its also fun to impress friends and confuse my girlfriend.

 

you know if you really think about it...if you didn't want to wear your clutch or synchros you could use the clutch but rev match and dump the clutch...this would be the same as rev matching without the clutch except less wear on synchros...or so it seems to me...i may be wrong

 

Yes, but then think of the added wear and tear on your knee.

 

haha... we're all young here aren't we...