Powershifting: The right way.
power shifting makes my car a whole different beast the car spins like crazy when power shifting it spins when quick shifting but the difference in the power shifting is amazing
i do agree that hand position on the shifter is key to not missing shifts
i do agree that hand position on the shifter is key to not missing shifts
Originally Posted by HavATampa
That's good shifting info Brain. Are you guys sliding your foot off the clutch pedal to let it pop up or just raising your foot really quick with the pedal?
let me jump in and just say powershifting uses no clutch action at all. its a precise extremely fast rev match, i do it sometimes. no noises at all smooth as glass fast and hits the power to the wheels hard. i would not reccomend trying it till you have speed shifted(what you guys are talking about) a high powered 500+ hp manual car to be able to master hi speed rev matching.
i have been clutchless powershifting in my camaro for a while now that runs 11s on motor and has the factory saginaw 4 speed. still running strong.
also have done it a couple times in my 98ws6 with no probalems, execept it is harder in the ls1 because of its throttle response being slower then a carbed car.
also id like to add in when i speed shift i push (basicly slam to the floor) the clutch in at 6200, then hold the throttle at 6200 untill in in the next gear, then i rev it up to 6500 and take my foot off as quick as possible. this creates a small clutch dump into the next gear. and if you can do it as fast as me with good throttle controll (i often drove with my right foot barefoot to learn) you will love it. when your racing someone with this technique by the time they hear your car about to shift they hear the tires squeal and your in 2nd.
i have been clutchless powershifting in my camaro for a while now that runs 11s on motor and has the factory saginaw 4 speed. still running strong.
also have done it a couple times in my 98ws6 with no probalems, execept it is harder in the ls1 because of its throttle response being slower then a carbed car.
also id like to add in when i speed shift i push (basicly slam to the floor) the clutch in at 6200, then hold the throttle at 6200 untill in in the next gear, then i rev it up to 6500 and take my foot off as quick as possible. this creates a small clutch dump into the next gear. and if you can do it as fast as me with good throttle controll (i often drove with my right foot barefoot to learn) you will love it. when your racing someone with this technique by the time they hear your car about to shift they hear the tires squeal and your in 2nd.
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Originally Posted by BriancWS6
I'm a small guy, under 115, so I'm pretty quick
My uncle always taught me that "powershifting" was with NO clutch. Just perfectly timing your shifts & RPM w/o ever gettin off the gas or using a clutch. So my question is, are u guys "powershifting" or just "speed shifting"? there is a big difference. Compared as to how it was explained to me. Of course it could just apply to the original muscle cars of the 60's & 70's, before we had these new hydrolic clutches.
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Originally Posted by BIG_MIKE2005
My uncle always taught me that "powershifting" was with NO clutch. Just perfectly timing your shifts & RPM w/o ever gettin off the gas or using a clutch. So my question is, are u guys "powershifting" or just "speed shifting"? there is a big difference. Compared as to how it was explained to me. Of course it could just apply to the original muscle cars of the 60's & 70's, before we had these new hydrolic clutches.
I believed that was powershifting, alot of people had told me that.
Now, how in the hell do you change gears at WOT without using any clutch? Ive heard "timing" but WTF? Can someone explain this further? Can we do this with our cars if done right?
I personally dont know. Im too afraid to try & risk droppin the tranny. My uncle did it in his 67' Stang & he was runnin 500RWHP. Dont know how the hell he did it, but he did. But like i stated, the clutch systems are way different now compared to the old days.
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Originally Posted by '02 WS6
When I started this post I was referring to the act of shifting by clutching and chaging gears like normal, but instead of letting off the gas, stay WOT throughout the whole shift.
I believed that was powershifting, alot of people had told me that.
Now, how in the hell do you change gears at WOT without using any clutch? Ive heard "timing" but WTF? Can someone explain this further? Can we do this with our cars if done right?
I believed that was powershifting, alot of people had told me that.
Now, how in the hell do you change gears at WOT without using any clutch? Ive heard "timing" but WTF? Can someone explain this further? Can we do this with our cars if done right?
Originally Posted by BIG_MIKE2005
My uncle always taught me that "powershifting" was with NO clutch. Just perfectly timing your shifts & RPM w/o ever gettin off the gas or using a clutch. So my question is, are u guys "powershifting" or just "speed shifting"? there is a big difference. Compared as to how it was explained to me. Of course it could just apply to the original muscle cars of the 60's & 70's, before we had these new hydrolic clutches.
Now, if I only knew how or why anyone would do either, maybe I would be able to win a race every once in a while...
I really, really need to learn how to launch.
Sorry I don't have any good info for you. Hope I didn't get too off topic or jack your thread.
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Originally Posted by terr1bleone
did everyone miss my post?
Now, could someone tell me how to rev match? If you dont let off the gas it seems like revs will only rise and they need to drop to go to the next higher gear so...?
Well rev matching is bringing up the rpms so when you downshift to a lower gear the shaft will be spinning as close to the same speed as the engine and rearwheels, so that it is a smooth transition. Like for a 60mph roll I would push clutch in, rev to 4500+ as I move the shifter to 2nd, and let out clutch and mash the gas the rest of the way down. This is smooth as silk when done properly.
As far as the name of shifting techniques goes, if shifting "without" the clutch is powershifting, and shifting under WOT "with" the clutch is speedshifting, then what do you call shifting by letting off the gas, pushing in the clutch, hitting the next gear, letting out the clutch, and then back on the gas as quick as humanly possible called? It sure ain't granny shifting you wouldn't think. I honestly believe that shifting an LS1 car "without" the clutch is about the dumbest thing you can do. These trannys have enuff problems from powershifting "with" the clutch, not letting off the throttle, so I think that you would have to be a complete moron to attempt that, let alone do it on a regular basis. So I will stick to this......
Powershifting: Shifting "with" the clutch under continous WOT.
Speedshifting: Letting off the throttle for the split second it takes to push in the clutch and hit the next gear.
Granny shifting: Shifting out of the powerband, at lower than optimum rpms, letting off the throttle for the shifts
Shifting without the clutch: A good way to a BAD day!!!!
As far as the name of shifting techniques goes, if shifting "without" the clutch is powershifting, and shifting under WOT "with" the clutch is speedshifting, then what do you call shifting by letting off the gas, pushing in the clutch, hitting the next gear, letting out the clutch, and then back on the gas as quick as humanly possible called? It sure ain't granny shifting you wouldn't think. I honestly believe that shifting an LS1 car "without" the clutch is about the dumbest thing you can do. These trannys have enuff problems from powershifting "with" the clutch, not letting off the throttle, so I think that you would have to be a complete moron to attempt that, let alone do it on a regular basis. So I will stick to this......
Powershifting: Shifting "with" the clutch under continous WOT.
Speedshifting: Letting off the throttle for the split second it takes to push in the clutch and hit the next gear.
Granny shifting: Shifting out of the powerband, at lower than optimum rpms, letting off the throttle for the shifts
Shifting without the clutch: A good way to a BAD day!!!!
Originally Posted by '02 WS6
I read your post and all I got from it is that with extremely precise rev-matching it can be done in our cars.
Now, could someone tell me how to rev match? If you dont let off the gas it seems like revs will only rise and they need to drop to go to the next higher gear so...?
Now, could someone tell me how to rev match? If you dont let off the gas it seems like revs will only rise and they need to drop to go to the next higher gear so...?
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Originally Posted by terr1bleone
i wish i was by you i could teach you how im person way better. okay so try this around 4000rpms, get on the gas about 3/4 power and when you get up to about 4k slip it out of gear while you are still picking up speed but slowly take your foot off the gas, make sure you do it in one smooth motion at the time you hit 4k,ease your foot off and quickly take it out of gear gently. you have to do this before the trans starts slowing the car down. at this point if done properly you will have matched the syncros and it will slide out and into neutral like butter, if you feel the shifter is firm and doesnt want to slide out of gear dont yank it, it will make a loud clunk noise. once in neutral rev the car up to what rpm it will be at in 2nd. to learn shift at 4k with the clutch and when it hits 2nd lets just say for example its at 3200rpms. so when in neutral stage rev the car to 3500 then let it go back down to 3200 and hold it there while you slide it in 2nd, it should go right in no noises or anything just like it came out of gear smooth as butter. doing this wrong can damage your trans pretty bad if your jamming it in improperly. so i do not reccomend it to someone who cant drive around daily at low rpms shifting through the gears without the clutch(while making no noises or grinds) i have heard t56's to be pretty weak so be carefull and goodluck, you have to do the whole 3 step process pretty quick to get good results. pratcice reving the car up in neutral to the desired rpm and holding it there and being able to controll throttle vs rpm. hope this helped explain. anymore questions just ask.
I'm looking for e.t. shaving techniques.I appreciate the info; Ive heard of a guy I know shifting without the clutch and I always wondered what that was about. I guess it can be done but I definitely agree that it is a easy way to destroy your trans if done wrong.
I'm gonna stick to BriancWS6's definition of "powershifting" .... and hope I dont break anything that way!
Originally Posted by '02 WS6
Is this a very fast technique if you have to shift at 4000 and let off of the gas between shifts I'm looking for e.t. shaving techniques.
I appreciate the info; Ive heard of a guy I know shifting without the clutch and I always wondered what that was about. I guess it can be done but I definitely agree that it is a easy way to destroy your trans if done wrong.
I'm gonna stick to BriancWS6's definition of "powershifting" .... and hope I dont break anything that way!
I'm looking for e.t. shaving techniques.I appreciate the info; Ive heard of a guy I know shifting without the clutch and I always wondered what that was about. I guess it can be done but I definitely agree that it is a easy way to destroy your trans if done wrong.
I'm gonna stick to BriancWS6's definition of "powershifting" .... and hope I dont break anything that way!
yes, you dont really do it that way like i tried to explain, i was simply showing you how to controll it a lower rpms before you **** your trans up badly. to do it right shift at 6k and keep your foot steady at 6k then floor it and go into the next gear, do it super fast. i only put the long process so you can learn safer then just WOT and ripping the gears.
Originally Posted by terr1bleone
yes, you dont really do it that way like i tried to explain, i was simply showing you how to controll it a lower rpms before you **** your trans up badly. to do it right shift at 6k and keep your foot steady at 6k then floor it and go into the next gear, do it super fast. i only put the long process so you can learn safer then just WOT and ripping the gears.
That would be a pretty slow way of doing it, I mean your talking about either not having it to the floor and bringing it up to 6k with some pedal left for your technique, or your gonna have to back off the throttle some to have the pedal again to "floor it and then shift" as you put it. Sorry my friend but that method has to be the dumbest way of getting a good time slip and the best way to fry your syncros. Yes I have heard of shifting without the clutch, my Dad has done it many times in his old farm truck beater.....79 F-150 4 speed with bulldog. He would accelerate lift off the pedal and before the engine started to slow the truck back down he would slide it into the next gear. His clutch messed up on him while he was a good bit from home so he had to do that method to get it back, and sometimes he just does it for the hell of it. But that is a different tranny, different scenario, and different objective. I think the fastest way to shift netting the best ETs is through my definition of powershifting. To each his own, I hope noone tries your method with our T-56, cause they'll be spitting out syncros like old chewing gum!!!
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I'm tempted now to try this clutchless method out (not anywhere near WOT though) but I think even if it is marginally faster than powershifting(if you are an expert shifter) its not worth the risk of killing your trans
My car has been in the paint shop these last few weeks and my Pro 5.0 has just been sitting by my bed...I cant wait to try this stuff!!
My car has been in the paint shop these last few weeks and my Pro 5.0 has just been sitting by my bed...I cant wait to try this stuff!!
Originally Posted by BriancWS6
So your saying to have the revs climb to 6k holding it steady, "then" floor it and shift to the next gear That would be a pretty slow way of doing it, I mean your talking about either not having it to the floor and bringing it up to 6k with some pedal left for your technique, or your gonna have to back off the throttle some to have the pedal again to "floor it and then shift" as you put it. Sorry my friend but that method has to be the dumbest way of getting a good time slip and the best way to fry your syncros.
Yes I have heard of shifting without the clutch, my Dad has done it many times in his old farm truck beater.....79 F-150 4 speed with bulldog. He would accelerate lift off the pedal and before the engine started to slow the truck back down he would slide it into the next gear. His clutch messed up on him while he was a good bit from home so he had to do that method to get it back, and sometimes he just does it for the hell of it. But that is a different tranny, different scenario, and different objective. I think the fastest way to shift netting the best ETs is through my definition of powershifting. To each his own, I hope noone tries your method with our T-56, cause they'll be spitting out syncros like old chewing gum!!!
That would be a pretty slow way of doing it, I mean your talking about either not having it to the floor and bringing it up to 6k with some pedal left for your technique, or your gonna have to back off the throttle some to have the pedal again to "floor it and then shift" as you put it. Sorry my friend but that method has to be the dumbest way of getting a good time slip and the best way to fry your syncros. Yes I have heard of shifting without the clutch, my Dad has done it many times in his old farm truck beater.....79 F-150 4 speed with bulldog. He would accelerate lift off the pedal and before the engine started to slow the truck back down he would slide it into the next gear. His clutch messed up on him while he was a good bit from home so he had to do that method to get it back, and sometimes he just does it for the hell of it. But that is a different tranny, different scenario, and different objective. I think the fastest way to shift netting the best ETs is through my definition of powershifting. To each his own, I hope noone tries your method with our T-56, cause they'll be spitting out syncros like old chewing gum!!!
also like he said, if you are asking questions please dont try this on your t-56. it will get fucked quickly. so unless its worth a few tran's learning how to do it fast,(i gaurntee its faster then clutch shifting, even if i explained it to seem longer) dont try it.
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Originally Posted by terr1bleone
also like he said, if you are asking questions please dont try this on your t-56. it will get fucked quickly. so unless its worth a few tran's learning how to do it fast,(i gaurntee its faster then clutch shifting, even if i explained it to seem longer) dont try it.
Thanks for the advice though, Ive always wondered what other techniques were. I'll probably try it like you first described by shifting at 4000.
Question: If I go to try this can I start by just practicing pulling it out of gear first with no noise? Should it go into the next gear once I can pull it out smoothly?
Dont worry, I'm not gonna try this at the track, I'll stick to "speedshifting"