Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Ok here goes....

About 2 months ago, I installed a new prototype Mcleod Rev-Lok II clutch and 4.56 gears and decided to go run the car hard to see what the gears/clutch felt like. I went through 2nd and 3rd fine, but when it came time to hit 4th, I heard some horrible noises in the tranny. After this, the car would go into gear but would not move when the clutch let out. I knew the tranny was on its last leg, so I wasn't too mad. It lasted 29k extremely hard miles and close to 250 1/4 miles passes. I got my money's worth out of it for sure. LOL

I decided to go ahead and just purchase another rebuilt tranny from a reputable place and trade my old broke one in as a core. I received the tranny and installed it that night. It shifted great! I didn't realize how bad my other tranny was. Well, this didn't last long. I put 25 passes on it and 600 miles before it got stuck in 4th gear (and I mean stuck). After finally getting it out of gear, the tranny would grind real bad going into 3rd/4th gear after that.

I pulled the tranny out and brought it to a local guy who has rebuilt tons of T56s. He took it apart and found alot of messed up stuff inside. 2nd, 3rd, and 4th speed gears all needed to be replaced, along with the 1/2, 3/4 syncros. The original builder of the tranny thought it was due to my clutch not fully releasing. I really don't think that was the case as I have all the upgraded hydraulics and the tranny seemed to shift smooth. Also, there are two other people with this clutch (Fireball and Coach 02 Z28) and they are not having any issues. We have identical setups (clutch, hydraulics, etc). Regardless, I replaced the clutch just to be on the safe side to eliminate that idea.

So, I did that this afternoon, along with installing the freshly rebuilt tranny. Everything seemed to be fine at first, but it seemed hard to get out of 2nd gear after a few shifts. I just attributed this to the tranny being fresh and the fluid still circulating. However, it kept getting worse and worse. Finally, it just got stuck in 2nd gear, just like it did the previous time with 4th gear. I had less than 2 miles on the tranny.

I'm 99% sure it was rebuilt correctly, as this guy has done plenty T56s for local guys with no issues. He really knows what he is doing. It has a complete new 2nd gear, so it's not from worn parts.

I'm pulling it out again tomorrow and we are going to tear it down while it is still stuck in 2nd to see if we can notice anything.

Anyone have any ideas on what would cause this? It would not come out of gear with the car on or off. I also tried to pump the pedal repeatedly with no change. Could it be the clutch? I know everything was installed correctly (I have done probably over 30 LS1 clutch installs).

Jason

<small>[ August 21, 2002, 10:16 PM: Message edited by: Jason99T/A ]</small>

dug

iTrader: (10)

Jason

Sorry to hear about all your probs. I dont know much about these clutches to help you but my car has weird symtoms too. I have noticed weird things with the clutch when shifting.

Sometimes it doesnt feel like the clutch is fully releasing even though the pedal is pressed all the way to the floor. I swear it drags sometimes. For example when stopped at a light going from neutral to first the tranny will make a loud clunk going into gear. It will still clunk if I wait a few seconds before putting it into first after pushing in the clutch (waiting for the input shaft to come to a stop). Sometimes it will go into gear with no noise. This makes me wonder if the clutch sometimes sticks.

I have never drivin a anything that shifted so poorly. I used to have a s10 pick up with a hydralic clutch. Once it was low on fluid and the clutch was dragging and it shifted terrible. Sometimes my car shifts very similar to the way the s10 did when low on fluid. Hard, harsh shifts.

There is something not right about these hydralic ls1 clutches. I am sure you are installing them correctly. There is probably a design flaw causing flex or something. I have driven hundreds of manuals from front drive cars to full size trucks and none of them shift as bad as these cars.

This weekend I am going to lift up the rear tires off the ground and run the car through the gears. I am going to see if the tires turn even with the clutch pressed to the floor . If they do that will explain everything. Maybe you might want to try it too. Sounds like your problems are clutch related. The only other thing I can think of is that the trans have become junk ever since tremec took over and started building them in mexico.

If these clutches are sticking then just driving the car will ruin the trans. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" /> WTF

<small>[ August 21, 2002, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: dug ]</small>

ChrisB

My money would be on the clutch. If you have the tranny apart check to make sure you haven't bent the input/output shaft - but normally that would cause 4th gear engagement problems before anything else.

Chris

Vents

iTrader: (9)

Jason,

my car has the same problem. i've been told by quite a few that the slaves on the 98 and 99 cars are horridd. mins shifts VERY rough and grinds into reverse. im going to try an 02 zo6 slave cyllinder and see what happens.

Dug,

my car does spin the tires when it's up on stands. when i changed the clutch out about a month ago, we tested it while still on the stands and the tires turn in every gear before the clutch is dis-engaged. wierd.. i dont mean to beat a dead horse, but im convinced that it is a slave cyllinder problem. grr..

Damian

iTrader: (89)

Jason, that ****** SUCKS dude. I guess all your good luck with setups working exactly as planned has finally ran out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" /> ...j/k

The last time my tranny got stuck in gear and I pulled it apart, one of my shift forks was almost bent to a 90* angle...not good! Most of the time when I hear of trannies getting stuck, it's something similar.

Definately shouldn't be the case for you since you're tranny is brand new, but take it for whats it's worth I guess. Good luck dude....

Josh

Coach 02 A3 Z/28

iTrader: (10)

Jason,

Damn the luck! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="gr_images/icons/mad.gif" />

Like you stated above. I have not had a problem with mine and you know how many passes I have on my Hot Hod. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="gr_tounge.gif" />

I will call ya later and see what the problem is. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

I feel your PAIN! <img border="0" alt="[whiner]" title="" src="graemlins/gr_cry.gif" />

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Chris, do you mean the clutch itself (PP,disk,flywheel) or the hydraulics? I am using a Mcleod adjustable m/c with a the '02 GM 145 slave that has less than 600 miles on it. The pilot bearing was replaced about 5k miles ago when I installed this motor in my car.

The shifts forks looked fine when we tore it apart. It does have the upgraded 3-4 fork from D&D.

I should know something more tonight.

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Here are a few other possibilities:

- Bad shifter? I have 3 year old B&M Ripper.
- My driveshaft does stick pretty far in the tranny. I don't know if this could cause any of these problems.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

Fireball

iTrader: (21)

I've seen 2 T-56s go when the driveshaft bottomed out in the tranny...they completely seized up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" /> Remember, when you gas it or even hit a bump...the driveshaft goes even further in the tranny...I had a custom one made for that reason

IMO a problem with a clutch would show its ugly head on driving around causually and having difficulties engaging in gears...I'm running that same clutch with no problem WITH STOCK HYDRUALICS <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />

I feel your pain...I'm on tranny #3 myself <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />

<small>[ August 22, 2002, 10:47 AM: Message edited by: Fireball ]</small>

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Thanks Brian. It looks like I'm going to go get one made today. I had been planning on getting one eventually. Looks like now is as good a time as any.

D&D

Jason,it sounds like the clutch is not releasing. I'm no expert as far as the hydraulics are concerned, but you might also want to check the flywheel and the pressure plate for high spots (usually blue spots on flywheel or pressure plate). What happens is those high spots ,if present, will keep the input shaft spinning even though your clutch is to the floor. You then are relying on the carbon fiber blocker rings (part of syncro) to slow the engine down. This isn't going to happen, one would have a better chance of grabbing the harmonic balancer by hand to stop the engine. I believe your problem with your trans now is a broken insert within the 3/4 slider. There are three little inserts in the slider, their job is to keep the blocker ring from spinning on the cone of the gear. Once these inserts break there is nothing to slow the gear down because the blocker is spinning along with the gear. When the insert first breaks, the shifter will get stuck in gear until you pull on it pretty hard. This is because the inserts get turned sideways in the slider, not allowing the slider to move freely for and aft. The inserts will only cost a couple of bucks, unfortunatley the trans needs to be completley disassembled to get at these inserts.

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

D&D, thanks for replying. There were no hot spots on the PP or flywheel as it was a brand new PP/disk with a resurfaced stock flywheel.

Are you talking about the 3 little "keys" on the syncro assembly? If so, these broke on the last two trannies I had.

I'll know something definte regarding the tranny tonight. I'll be taking it apart after work.

What else could cause the clutch to not release?

Jason

java

this sucks Jason, sorry. You know I am no expert but I'll throw in my $.02 anyway.

What did the other clutch look like when you pulled it out? Any hot spots? The only thing I can think of is that perhaps the stock t.o. bearing can't disengage the clutch enough to prevent slipping, hence overheating, hot spots, warping, etc. Before anyone has a temper tantrum, I am not saying it is the McLeod clutch.

From what I have read the past few weeksm I agree with the above, the driveshaft may be an issue. Have you check the geometry of the rear end to make sure it is in stock locations?

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Steve, the other clutch looked brand new. No blue hot spots or anything. I only replaced the clutch to eliminate one variable.

I pulled the tranny out this afternoon and will be taking it apart this evening.

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

If it was a clutch problem, then it should come out of gear with the car turned off since the clutch is not turning anymore, correct?

Sears

Damn man, I can not belive you are having this problem! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> My driveshaft is all the way in my tranny too, and I wonder if this is the cause of my past ( maybe future ) tranny problems?

I don't think it's Sammy, he has done mine and many others with great success.

Justin

Jason99T/A

iTrader: (21)

Justin, I can't believe this is happening either. LOL Oh well, it will get fixed soon.

I know Sammy knows what he is doing. Your rebuilt T56 is shifting better than ever and Tim H's tranny is doing great also.

We didn't have time to tear into it this evening. It should be sometime Sat. before we find out what's going on inside.

Jason

java

well you can eleminate a lot and what you are left with is 1.) clutch or 2.) driveshaft. Did they check the output shaft when rebuilding the tranny?

ZULater01

iTrader: (1)

Now my 2 cents <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" /> This happened to me in my Stock 2001 Z28, Stock clutch and all, well I took it to the dealership and they said it was my INPUT SHAFT, 1-2,3-4 Shift Forks, Syncros, and Throwout Bearing, well you have all problems down it sounds like except one, Input shaft, check it out and see. <img border="0" alt="[Burnout]" title="" src="graemlins/burnout.gif" />

2bseen

check the clutch I called them last week and they are having problems with over 6k dumps the clutch will not ingauge I sent mine back and they are rebuilding it to a new version.