UnbelievabLS1

iTrader: (5)

That's the beauty of it, the 335i isn't $10-$15K more than a 335i. With the dealer mark-up's on the G8's, you can get into a 335i for about $5K on average more than a G8, and that's not a base model 335i either, that's one with the Sport Package and heated seats.

Ask me how I know.....the wife's getting a 335i, and the G8 we drove yesterday just didn't do it for us.

BAD ASS TA WS6

iTrader: (5)

And do you know how much BMW has invested technology wise in all their new platforms? Far beyond that, and that is why they are one of (if not THE) leader in automotive technology.

You're on crack if you think the build quality will be on par with the BMW.

My family has been strictly GM for probably 30 years. Owning a variety of different GM brands across the board.

I'm a BMW tech, and still have love for GM. But we're talking two totally different ends of the spectrum here. GM has come a LONG way, even in the past 5 years. In terms of build quality and engineering, they still aren't even close.

I could probably comparte the two in detail all day long, but I would be wasting my time. Even I realize that this is a GM board, and the purists are impossible to sway.

The 335 is such a good car, it's hard to beat IMO. It's only downfall is the innability to have a LSD diff without spending $3k, or not at all after 2007. It's other obvious downfall is the price.

The G8 is going to be a bargain deal, for those that don't have the dough for the BMW. Nobody with $50k+ is going to give a **** about the G8. Which IMO is already old technology, and really nothing new. Nothing about the car pushes the envelope, of anything. It just turns out to be a good looking 4 door car, with a well loved V8 power plant. GM NEEDED this car, to fill a gap. And it does that well, and it's about damn time!

Comparable to the BMW 550, it is not. That's all I'm saying..

Jditlfm

iTrader: (26)

Problems Mercedes had in the past are exactly that they are in the past and it still does not discredit them from there inventions, innovations or quality. Mercedes has put out so much technology for the automotive industry its not even funny. As far as me being one sided on the whole Germen vs American vs Japanese thats also wrong. Don't confuse my enlightened and educated opinion with ignorance. Like i said i do this for a living, i work on both i have driven both and went to school for over four years for both. Accusing me of being one sided would not be a factual statement. How much knowledge do you have of M-B or BMW to bring to the table on the technical side to Support your statement of Pontiac being a better quality brand. Im not trying to take anything away from the beloved G8. All i am trying to say is that Pontiac is not on the same playing field with BMW, one is a budget car the other is not.

sedanman

iTrader: (10)

It seems there is a big change in quality going on, and the differance in preceived quality and actual quality. Several of my coworkers have MB's and they are in the shop alot and the maintance sucks. However when you sit in one they feel quality they just fail in drivetrain. That being said I have driven a new G8 and honestly it just rocks, it feels great, drives awesome and is priced right. If you are shallow enough to care what people think you are not going to buy a G8, you want to brag about a MB or BMW and you will never open your eyes. That being said our bought new 07 toyota 4runner which was bought for trouble free ease has turned into a headache, meanwhile my about to be replaced Jeep Grand Cherokee has 130K and gives me no trouble.

Maybe its time for GM to raise to the top in quality.

DrkPhynx

Problems that GM had in the past are exactly that, the past.

See, I'm not trying to argue here, I'm just pointing out the power of perception. There are loads of ways to debate this point. Yes, M-B have developed a lot. There's a reason the S-Class has the rep it does. Karl Benz even gets credited with the first working car. But honestly, that has nothing to do with "quality".

Is "quality" a "feel", or is it how long the car can run? Many assume that US cars are crap because they rattle a lot. But they run every bit as long as, or longer than, their Euro and Asian counter parts.

Quality can also be a factor of life span vs cost. One could easily argue that the ability to upgrade and maintain an American V8 for next to nothing results in a higher value, and is a measure of quality. It's just another kind of quality.

Furthermore, as much as I truly hate to say it, the G8 is not a GMNA product, meaning it's not "Pontiac" per se, in the same way that our Trans Ams are. They are Holden. And Saturn is quickly becoming Opel. Ford Europe is very diffrent from what we see here. What GM is doing is bringing the Euro products here under familiar names. But people can't get past the names.

The BMW may have higher quality materials in the cabin and feel nicer. For the money, I hope it would. But that doesn't mean it's a "higher quality" car. It doesn't mean it's TCO will be lower, or that it will live longer, or that it uses technology as intelligently (and I'm sure that will trigger a reaction, but it's not meant as bait. What I mean is, DOHC is not as well suited to road cars as OHV. People swear up and down that pushrods are pre-historic (when they are a newer technology) and worthless, when in fact they offer more benefits in a road going application and DOHC is more for public perception and appeal than anything else, yet BMW loves DOHC as we seen in the new M3. An LSx would be a better engine - and let's also not forget about i-crash lol).

I guess my only issue and reason for commenting is the perception. People think "Pontiac = crap and BMW = god" In fact, that's not even close to true, it's almost entirely stereotype, especially these days, and more importantly, it depends on which Pontiac (new, old, Holden, GMNA, NUMMI, etc), and what one means when they talk about something as vague as "quality".

COD02SS

Please tell us how the LSX is better then the M5's engine? The M5 only needs 5L to achieve 500hp where the LS7 needs 7L. Pushrods and displacement are an easy way to make power but i'd much rather displacement and DOHC's. Much more fun

To even bring this up. In 1999 ford brought out the Cobra R with a 5.4L 4V modular with what 380hp yet it still takes gm more displacement to produce the same amount of horsepower. The only real great thing about pushrod engines are there dimensions compared to there DOHC counterparts.

Yun Gunz

Lets see a BMW in top fuel against a an American Big Block.
Now granted Benz and BMW have been in the sky, I could careless.

DrkPhynx

You're clearly spoiling for a fight. I knew that would set some people (like you) off. lol

Your statements are so far out (power per liter meaning anything at all, or GM "needing" more displacement to make power, etc), that it's not even funny.

Rather than take all day to explain it (especially since it's 3 minutes till the end of teh day), and rather than re-invent the wheel, I'll just link to someone else who has already come up with a rather good explanation - http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums...howtopic=15551

COD02SS

No fight. Just a friendly discussion I love both engines so it's a win win

BAD ASS TA WS6

iTrader: (5)

Agreed, we all know the LSX is nothing revolutionary. But in 60 years, GM sure learned a lot with their V8s. IMO Chevrolet has always had the best V8. Their decision to keep pushrods, and build upon what they've learned, worked out well over the last 10 years.

They ended up with a light weight, versatile power house. It's a simple design, that flat out works well.

What I'm getting at, is that BMWs powerplants, are so far ahead of it it's rediculous. All of their 6 cylinders are NEAR bulletproof, and have been for the past 25 years.

The V8s for the most part AREN'T as reliable as an LSX. But there's a lot more to them, and a lot more technology there. All of this moves the ball forward, and that is what they have always been about. Technology, and the advancement of the automotive design as a whole.

Each of their designs, have their plusses and minuses. I don't care to hear about reliability issues from most on here, as 90% of them are as above. "My brothers sisters uncles car is always in the shop," blah blah blah, you have no direct experience.

GM has had their fair share of problems with 4.8s, and 5.3s, etc. No design is bulletproof once it goes through the daily abuse of the public.

Yes the LSX is bad ***, and surely effective and making big/reliable power for us gearheads.

But that's not to say a 335 isn't. For $3k you can make over 400RWHP, and reliable as can be. Plus the addition of direct injection (hello GM?), and an efficient twin turbo design with a remote amount of lag.

I've owned E30s, and E46s. I had a 2000 3 series with 220k miles and it looked and drove brand new, with less then $6k in maintenance costs OVER THE LIFE OF THE CAR!.

My E30 which is 22 years old, is still more fun to drive than any car, of 10x the value and power. This is all due to quality design.

Please share your GM experience with that. I'll post up pictures to prove the near mint condition of the car if you'd like LOL.

COD02SS

Bad,

Even with just a tune aren't the 335's putting down 350 to the wheels?

BAD ASS TA WS6

iTrader: (5)

LOL not even going to touch that one.

But I can post up a vid of an E46 M3 with a turbo kit (bone stock motor on 93 octane)

Making 600 rwhp, as I said on a COMPLETE factory motor, and walking all over a supercharged C5.

matsarge

is that the one Horsepower Freaks did? That thing is nasty.

BAD ASS TA WS6

iTrader: (5)

Bone stock with AA software only.

BAD ASS TA WS6

iTrader: (5)

Yes! There's quite a few running around at that power level now.

COD02SS

Wow. Awesome low end torque. The 335I is bmw's new entry level muscle car except it's build quality isn't garbage

matsarge

Cool! I was talking with them about putting one on my M3 before I decided to trade it in on the Vette.

matsarge

The 335i's are no joke. Just add a turbo tuner, Procede, Juice box, etc. and you're pushing 330-340HP and close to 400TQ to the wheels on a dynojet.

Yun Gunz

lol, cool. I am just here stirring the pot. Me, the BMW is a nice car, but I have no need for that much luxury, I prefer my truck and car, but that is opinion and that is what we are stirring around. And when a BMW is in the 4's with the power houses, I'd love to see it. maybe I am to redneck for a BMW. IN all honestly, sit back and look at just a simple motor. As a mechanic(which I know you guys are) would you prefer what is simple works and cost effiecient. Or have alot of Technology towards a motor. Maybe I grew up also, that there is no rush to be going to the future plenty of time. The technology is(electrical wise advanced, but they all work the same) but the motors work the same way, gas+air with spark makes boom. Just the parts that make it are advanced. Why do you need a bullet proof block, plan on doing bank robberies, when cheeper can maybe save you more. And I know BMW and the other imports are making there share.
ImportDomestic for the next millienium lol

BAD ASS TA WS6

iTrader: (5)

Very well built kit..

To clarify the car I was talking about was not HPFs company car. But rather a customer with the kit installed and running.

Young Gunz, to answer your question.... I'd rather have the knowledge that most domestic technicians out there lack. And be able to fix a technologically advanced car, and make the money while doing so. I'd love to see you spend a week driving one, and then return back to the average GM daily driver. You would then notice that it's not necessarilly the luxury that gets you. It's the feeling of driving a well designed car, that handles, stops, etc. Why not have 200hp, which gets the job done just fine. Why then do we build these rediculous street cars, most of them on this site above 400RWHP?

Because it's fun, and we can. For every one person who could care less about a well designed car, there is one who will pay the price without hesitation.

BMW will never be in the 4s, because they have no ambition too. They just released the new E92 M3 GTR. Which will more than likely dominate the American Le Mans series once again.

Since your probably not farmiliar with the grand touring cars... The E46 M3 GTR was banned from competition after it humiliated everyone the first year around. It didn't come from the factory with a V8, so they changed the rules and ousted the BMW.

Now they are back, like I said with the E92 M3 GTR and production V8. And I'm sure will dominate what it was designed for. A road course/circuit.