1fast bird

iTrader: (22)

I know you are not a scammer, I bought from you before. That's what drew me into this thread, cause I was surprised. I agree that he should have asked to get it insured and not assumed that you would just do it. I'm sure I'd be pissed on either side of this though. That's why it sucks for both of you. Keep talking with ups like someone said before, they won't want there reputation blemished either..... Trust me you don't want to go to court, it wouldn't be worth all the attorney fees. Before you know it ,you would have more than a $2300 problem!... Good luck to you both on this!

Thorny

iTrader: (14)

Insurance protects the seller, not the buyer. The buyer is entitled to his money back whether he purchases insurance or not. The seller is the one that packages the item, chooses the shipping company and makes the payment for shipment. All of those variables are completely out of the buyers hands and the buyer cannot be held responsible for them.

This is the exact reason that shipping companies issue a refund to the shipper and not the recipient if a package is lost or damaged. The SHIPPER is the one that purchases insurance and is responsible for every aspect of the shipment (in most cases).

People are trying to point out the flaws in your logic, this should be some indication to you that you need to re-evaluate your position. The buyer is not "hiding" behind Paypals rules. They are rules that you both agreed to, and they state that YOU are responsible for getting the item to the buyer. If you fail to do so, the buyer is entitled to a full refund. That clearly puts the onus of insurance on the SELLER, if the seller wants to be protected. Therefor, logically YOU were irresponsible by not insuring the item, because YOU were the one that would be out the money if the item was lost or damaged.

The situation sucks for everyone, hopefully UPS can find the transmission and this gets resolved easily. If they don't though, you are dead nuts wrong about not being liable. You signed a legally binding contract with Paypal to use their service and the courts WILL uphold it. If the package is not found, you owe the buyer his money back. There is no other outcome than that, and that is what makes it your responsibility to purchase insurance.

Bullet95z28

iTrader: (3)

Sucks for both the seller and the buyer, hopefully the transmission will be found and the situation can be resolved. HUNTER02SS after reading all six pages of this thread, i dont think you are a scammer at all, a bad person, nor intended for anything to happen, but i do think you could be a little more considerate and could have been a little more active in finding the transmission. It just seems as though you have a "oh well", "not my problem" attitude and could care less about it. I agree that insurance should have been asked for, but I also think that it should have been offered. I dont think you or the buyer should be out of the money or the transmission, but If the tranny isnt found, maybe both parties should accept half the responsibility and split the loss. Anyway hope its found and you guys work it all out.


METALBEAST - I applaud you for doing everything you can to help find the transmission. I think we need more people like you around, willing to do what they can to help people out when in a bad situation.

smok'nZ

iTrader: (160)

l would never ship anything that costs over 500$ w/o insurance but thats me hunter02ss was a great seller to me he had a little miss communication but it was resolved right away

Stol3n

if you would have read all six pages like you "claimed" to do then you would have noticed that hunter is going to the terminal where the transmission was scanned.

what else do you want him to do? he said he would be in touch with paypal, he said he was driving to the terminal where it was scanned, i mean **** do you want him to chase every brown truck down also and pull them over as well.

insurance can be bought for the seller/buyer. if i was buying an item online i would request insurance just because i'm not "expecting" nor "relying" on anyone to do it for me. after all it is my money and my responsibility to make sure it is covered.

only thing i can add is from now on is offer insurance as a seller. if the buyer wants it tack it on top of the mentioned price. if he declines it in this situation he has no legs to stand on.

hopefully UPS will rectify the situation.

Stol3n

forgot to add a big thumbs up to METALBEAST

Thorny

iTrader: (14)

Only the person shipping the package can purchase insurance on it from the shipping company and THERE IS A REASON FOR THAT. If the seller is the person physically arranging for the shipping (99% of cases) than the seller is liable for purchasing insurance on the package. Tell me why the buyer should be liable for poor packaging or lable information on the shippers part???


If you are using Paypal, even if you offer insurance and the buyer declines it, he will still win a claim if the package is lost. Again, this is because it is the SELLERS responsiblity to make sure the package arrives. The buyer cannot be held responsilbe for something that they have absolutely no direct control over. Unless the buyer arranges for shipping and pays the shipper directly, they are NOT responsible for the package arriving at thier doorstep, the seller is.

Can you give me a good reason why the buyer should possibly be responsible for an item arriving damaged due to improper packaging? (something not covered by shipping insurance)

Can you give me a good reason why the buyer should be responsible for the package arriving at the wrong address due to sellers error?

When using Paypal the package is the sellers responsiblity until the package gets delivered to the buyer. They require proof of such delivery by getting a signature confirmation so the seller has proof that the package was delivered and that thier onus is over. Paypal has these rules in effect because it is THE ONLY LOGICAL WAY FOR IT TO HAPPEN. If you don't agree, don't use Paypal and for heavens sake don't do business with me either. I don't want you telling me you won't refund my money because the crap packaging job you provided resulted in a damaged item that is not covered by the insurance I paid for

HUNTER02SS

iTrader: (24)

I can say it till I am blue. The buyer did not pay for extra insurance so none was purchased. The seller should not have to go into there own pocket to cover the buyer if the buyer dosn't want to cover themselves.
I am going to the UPS terminal in a few minutes to see what I can find out. I have also tried to appeal the action thru Paypal and it won't let me ? I have also said, I will refund him the money if the tranny is found, or UPS refunds me the money and then I will inturn refund the buyer. I now the rules that apply using paypal. But the flaw here is that no insurance was purchased so non was applied and for that reason the buyer is yes hiding behind paypal rule to get his money back. I will be back later to let you all know what I find.

Thorny

iTrader: (14)

So if the package is lost because the label you used didn't adhere to the package properly, the buyer should be out his money??

The rule with Paypal requires YOU to purchase the insurance, not the buyer. That is SPECIFICALLY why that rule is there, so YOU know as the SELLER to purchase it YOURSELF.

I hope you find the package today, it is clear you're going to hose the buyer if you dont.

BlackonBlackTA

iTrader: (3)

This is exactly how it works, and like I said back on like page 2 or 3;

"FOB shipping point" or "FOB origin" indicates the buyer pays shipping cost, and takes responsibility for the goods when the goods leave the seller's premises. "FOB destination" designates the seller will pay shipping costs, and remain responsible for the goods until the buyer takes possession.

This is clearly a FOB destination situation. The seller took the package to UPS and paid for shipping. Seller 'paid' shipping costs, whether it is part of the price of goods or on top of the agreed price for the goods, the seller paid for the shipping. The only way the buyer would be responsible for finding this package would be if it was a FOB origin situation, where the buyer bought the shipping label and had the shipping company pick up the package from the seller's house/warehouse.

It sucks the package was 'lost'. It is probably not lost, a little detective work should make it turn up. And I read that the seller is going to work on finding it, as he should, because he is responsible for it until it is signed for by the buyer.

posz28

iTrader: (1)

Damn that sucks.

HUNTER02SS

iTrader: (24)

Look guy's! I know I am the shipper and only I can purchase insurance for the item! This is not the problem! The problem is the BUYER did not PAY ME for the INSURANCE to be purchased. I plainly stated to him what he was buying from me! Insurance was not included in that price! I am going to UPS around lunch time know, and I hope to find out something. I will ask you guys the same question, If YOU was spending $2300.00 on a item would YOU just ASSUME or leave it up to the seller to purchase insurance for YOU, or would you actually say hey, make sure you insure the item for me, I WANT TO BE COVERED! Another thing, you guys make it out to be MANDATORY for the seller to buy Insurance, sorry it's not, especially if the buyer DID NOT PAY EXTRA FOR IT!

ls1290

iTrader: (20)

I assume you have the original invoice/recite from UPS that has the tracking number on it right. If you do, UPS should be able to track it down. If they can not find it, it will be every easy to file a claim with UPS. A responsible seller will track this down.

If you do not have the original recite, then you are **** out of lick as you have no proof that the transmission was even shipped. In this case the buyer has the right to request a full refund through PayPal.

Until you can provide proof the transmission was shipped, this thread will remain closed. LS1tech.com has no responsibility for items sold on the board and it will not be a ground for disputes.

Keith

J-Rod

One a final note:

The information on FOB is spot on. So, in this case, the seller is still on the hook for the sale. The seller really should refund the money, and resolve this issue with UPS, as the buyer has no way to resolve the issue with UPS even if he wanted to. UPS will NOT deal with the recipient, only the original shipper of record....

Here are a couple of points to consider for the seller:

Did you ever give the purchaser a price for insurance?
Did you make him aware of the fact that you were shipping this item uninsured?
As has been pointed out numerous times, you as the seller and the shipper are responsible in every way shape and form until that package gets to its destination.

Basically what it looks like is you overlooked the fact you needed to insure this package. Its gotten lost, and you don't want to eat the $2300. I understand that, but you are attempting to keep the buyers money by blaming the buyer with a VERY "thin" argument about the fact that they are responsible for purchasing insurance. Sorry, but that is 100% incorrect. Its not his item until he physically recieves it. In EVERY legal aspect, this is still your responsibilty as the seller.

If that was indeed the case tha the buyer was 100% responsible, you should have left it to the buyer to go online and fill out a UPS shipping label online, and arrange for the item to be picked up.

BTW, UPS's defacto ammount is $100 for insurance on all pacakges. So, you should get up to $100 if you don't claim additional insurance.

In the UPS system, a LOT of stuff goes missing. Most of the time its because the box gets damaged, or the label gets ripped off. UPS has an entire depot full of stuff that has fallen out of boxes, or doesn't have a label. You can call them up, and a lot of the time find stuff there. But, I have had several items not make it. Even with insurance, the claims procedure is a pain.


T56rebuilds had a lot of issues with all the freight companies loosing transmissions. Drivers are very rough on shipping transmissions. Really a tranny shouldn't even go UPS pacakge service, its really best to put it on a pallet and go via a freight service.

J-Rod

update via PM

J-Rod

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