Type of oil? Help
12-11-2008, 02:48 PM
#41
I think people are fooling themselves when it comes to engine oils. Other than the additives that are in them, and whether or not it is synthetic or semi-synthetic etc. it is ridiculous to think that one oil is superior to another.
Why do you think there are so many varying opinions? Because there is no right answer, oil is oil is oil, period. The bottle and how fancy it is, or the name, means nothing. Oil is a fossil fuel and if you knew about the refining process you would see that the name goes to the highest bidder, and the differences are often negligible, or close to it.
Concern yourself with the weight of the oil you are using (depending on season, boosted or not etc.) and whether you want sythetic (great for cold weather starts) or semi-synthetic or not, and avoid the hype of which name is better. It is an age old debate that holds little merit and has more to do with marketing than it it does with real world fact. I can pour liquid **** (just an example) into a vehicle and show you some advantages over oil if I use statistics and numbers! Also, oil does not break down, it gets dirty, and anyone who tells you otherwise is not in the know. Is one to assume that oil get thinner with time and mileage, since "breaking down" would indicate just that? In actuality it gets thicker, due to engine breakdown and deposits accumulating within the oil.
If there was in fact ONE superior oil, the others would simply not be able to compete OR exist. Statistics and studies are very easy to use for anyone who knows how to market. I could tell you that 90 percent of vehicles using Castrol have longer lives than vehicles which are not (what about the other 10 percent?). As the spokesperson of Quaker State, I could choose to point out that the remaining 10 percent have total engine breakdown due to the above mentioned oil not being adequate. How controlled are these studies? Are the vehicles the same ones used in ALL studies or did they use inferior vehicles that are cheaply made to point out the competitors lack of quality in oil? For that matter, no two engines are even alike, so where is the constant variable in these equations, and how accurate could the results be? These are just examples and by no means indicate fact. My point is, stats mean nothing and are simply a form of language used to sell merchandise, an idea or name, end of story. There are FAR too many factors affecting engine breakdown to determine that the only cause could be the oil, so these studies are innacurate and often biased.
Unless a comany is putting something other than oil in their "oil" it is, and always will be, oil.
Why do you think there are so many varying opinions? Because there is no right answer, oil is oil is oil, period. The bottle and how fancy it is, or the name, means nothing. Oil is a fossil fuel and if you knew about the refining process you would see that the name goes to the highest bidder, and the differences are often negligible, or close to it.
Concern yourself with the weight of the oil you are using (depending on season, boosted or not etc.) and whether you want sythetic (great for cold weather starts) or semi-synthetic or not, and avoid the hype of which name is better. It is an age old debate that holds little merit and has more to do with marketing than it it does with real world fact. I can pour liquid **** (just an example) into a vehicle and show you some advantages over oil if I use statistics and numbers! Also, oil does not break down, it gets dirty, and anyone who tells you otherwise is not in the know. Is one to assume that oil get thinner with time and mileage, since "breaking down" would indicate just that? In actuality it gets thicker, due to engine breakdown and deposits accumulating within the oil.
If there was in fact ONE superior oil, the others would simply not be able to compete OR exist. Statistics and studies are very easy to use for anyone who knows how to market. I could tell you that 90 percent of vehicles using Castrol have longer lives than vehicles which are not (what about the other 10 percent?). As the spokesperson of Quaker State, I could choose to point out that the remaining 10 percent have total engine breakdown due to the above mentioned oil not being adequate. How controlled are these studies? Are the vehicles the same ones used in ALL studies or did they use inferior vehicles that are cheaply made to point out the competitors lack of quality in oil? For that matter, no two engines are even alike, so where is the constant variable in these equations, and how accurate could the results be? These are just examples and by no means indicate fact. My point is, stats mean nothing and are simply a form of language used to sell merchandise, an idea or name, end of story. There are FAR too many factors affecting engine breakdown to determine that the only cause could be the oil, so these studies are innacurate and often biased.
Unless a comany is putting something other than oil in their "oil" it is, and always will be, oil.
Obviously thats 100% your opinion, because if you didn't do any research, you'd realize what you said is basically inncorrect.
Every manufacturer uses different base stocks and additive packages for their different types of oils. There is a huge, incomparable difference between Walmart oil and a brand name full synthetic.
Last edited by Wesmanw02; 12-11-2008 at 03:45 PM.
12-11-2008, 02:59 PM
#44
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Obviously thats 100% your opinion, because if you didn any research, you'd realixe what you said is all wrong.
Every manufacturer uses different base stocks and additive packages for their different types of oils. There is a huge, incomparable difference between Walmart oil and a brand name full synthetic.
Every manufacturer uses different base stocks and additive packages for their different types of oils. There is a huge, incomparable difference between Walmart oil and a brand name full synthetic.
Ok notwithstanding the spelling errors in your reply (lol i'm sure you'll correct them now, no worries we all do it and it isn't a spelling test I guess), I think the research you have done yourself is probably biased. All oil comes from this giant rock we live on. There is more difference in the transportation of oil and it's storage than in it's refining. Base stock? You're kidding right? My previously entered post is in fact my opinion and I believe that is what the original poster was looking for. If you have answers that I can take to the bank, please do tell. Which oil is the BEST in your informed opinion, and why? Also, why does there exist a competition between names if one is a clear winner? Don't say "price" since we all know that is not as relevent to the quality of the oil as it is to the demand of it's name.
Sorry for the thread hijack OP, just wanted to give you some food for thought. Just don't get too caught up on opinions (mine included) and go with a reputable name and stick with what works for you in terms of price and oil viscosity. Yes indeed another of my "opinions".
Last edited by oddwraith; 12-11-2008 at 03:17 PM.
12-11-2008, 03:09 PM
#45
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By "reputable name" I mean ANY oil that is a "known" oil manufacturer and not some no- name company that puts something other than what should be in the bottle in the bottle. So yes, this includes every oil brand I know of. They all have quality control so go with what suits you as I mentioned in my original response. Synthetic is a good idea (especially if it gets cold where you live-as it's viscosity remains close to it's original in colder weather allowing the oil to get up where it should more quickly). If you find some on sale and price is an issue, go with it. But hey, if you want to spend more money on a so called "superior oil" then that is absolutely your choice and MANY would agree with you. I can only say that you will not get ONE satisfactory answer on here as it is highly preferential and the topic is a rather subjective one. The science of oil is not an exact science and no oil is undisputably the best.
12-11-2008, 03:27 PM
#46
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Personally I prefer pennzoil platinum. Seems to thin out at a slower rate than M1.
I think the big issue isn't really the oil your are using as much as it is the frequency in which you change it. Yeah different oils have different characteristics and lifespans but it's up to you to decide what is best. Synth is great stuff, i only run synth, but good ol' conventional has never let me down before and it sure is cheaper.
I think the big issue isn't really the oil your are using as much as it is the frequency in which you change it. Yeah different oils have different characteristics and lifespans but it's up to you to decide what is best. Synth is great stuff, i only run synth, but good ol' conventional has never let me down before and it sure is cheaper.
12-11-2008, 03:44 PM
#47
Ok notwithstanding the spelling errors in your reply (lol i'm sure you'll correct them now, no worries we all do it and it isn't a spelling test I guess), I think the research you have done yourself is probably biased. All oil comes from this giant rock we live on. There is more difference in the transportation of oil and it's storage than in it's refining. Base stock? You're kidding right? My previously entered post is in fact my opinion and I believe that is what the original poster was looking for. If you have answers that I can take to the bank, please do tell. Which oil is the BEST in your informed opinion, and why? Also, why does there exist a competition between names if one is a clear winner? Don't say "price" since we all know that is not as relevent to the quality of the oil as it is to the demand of it's name.
All I'm saying is all oils are not created equally. They all have their own respective forumulas and addivites, and some fare better than others in oil analysis tests. Everyone knows conventional oil offers the least protection and shortest life, which is why its a poor choice for a performance vehicle, or any vehicle in the long term really.
As for the differences among brands, its all in the formula. I regard just about any brand name synthetic as excellent oil, though I have heard many reports that in oil analysis tests, Penzoil Platinum offers the best protection against wear.
I don't have a personal favorite, although I use Mobil 1 EP in my T/A and Mobil 1 HM in my GTP. I would just as happily use Valvoline Synpower or Castrol Syntec or Penzoil Platinum as well, I usually just get Mobil 1 though because Walmart sells it for a very good price in their 5 quart jugs.
I think we may be saying the same thing here, any brand name, reputable full synthetic oil is going to be good. I initially thought you were saying all any oil including coventional was the same stuff, which is why I objected.
12-11-2008, 03:46 PM
#48
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Personally I prefer pennzoil platinum. Seems to thin out at a slower rate than M1.
I think the big issue isn't really the oil your are using as much as it is the frequency in which you change it. Yeah different oils have different characteristics and lifespans but it's up to you to decide what is best. Synth is great stuff, i only run synth, but good ol' conventional has never let me down before and it sure is cheaper.
I think the big issue isn't really the oil your are using as much as it is the frequency in which you change it. Yeah different oils have different characteristics and lifespans but it's up to you to decide what is best. Synth is great stuff, i only run synth, but good ol' conventional has never let me down before and it sure is cheaper.
12-11-2008, 03:51 PM
#49
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Well thank you.
Maybe we had a misunderstanding.
All I'm saying is all oils are not created equally. They all have their own respective forumulas and addivites, and some fare better than others in oil analysis tests. Everyone knows conventional oil offers the least protection and shortest life, which is why its a poor choice for a performance vehicle, or any vehicle in the long term really.
As for the differences among brands, its all in the formula. I regard just about any brand name synthetic as excellent oil, though I have heard many reports that in oil analysis tests, Penzoil Platinum offers the best protection against wear.
I don't have a personal favorite, although I use Mobil 1 EP in my T/A and Mobil 1 HM in my GTP. I would just as happily use Valvoline Synpower or Castrol Syntec or Penzoil Platinum as well, I usually just get Mobil 1 though because Walmart sells it for a very good price in their 5 quart jugs.
I think we may be saying the same thing here, any brand name, reputable full synthetic oil is going to be good. I initially thought you were saying all any oil including coventional was the same stuff, which is why I objected.
Maybe we had a misunderstanding.
All I'm saying is all oils are not created equally. They all have their own respective forumulas and addivites, and some fare better than others in oil analysis tests. Everyone knows conventional oil offers the least protection and shortest life, which is why its a poor choice for a performance vehicle, or any vehicle in the long term really.
As for the differences among brands, its all in the formula. I regard just about any brand name synthetic as excellent oil, though I have heard many reports that in oil analysis tests, Penzoil Platinum offers the best protection against wear.
I don't have a personal favorite, although I use Mobil 1 EP in my T/A and Mobil 1 HM in my GTP. I would just as happily use Valvoline Synpower or Castrol Syntec or Penzoil Platinum as well, I usually just get Mobil 1 though because Walmart sells it for a very good price in their 5 quart jugs.
I think we may be saying the same thing here, any brand name, reputable full synthetic oil is going to be good. I initially thought you were saying all any oil including coventional was the same stuff, which is why I objected.
12-11-2008, 04:10 PM
#50
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Just to back up what I am saying about engine oil and the myth of it "getting thinner" here is a link to some information referring to "black death" or "sludge" as it is commonly known. I have not read this before and just did a search to find some substantial info to back what I am saying. I in no way endorse any one product and need to be clear on that (even if the link I provided does push a product that was not the part I want you to focus on). Just pointing out that engine oil does NOT breakdown in the convential way we think of by it becoming "thinner". Lets put this myth to rest and realize that it's all about keeping your engine from extensive friction. Or simply do a search on "black death" or "engine oil sludge" on your own and you'll see what I'm talking about. Engine oil breakdown is widely misunderstood and that is used against us (the consumer) in a marketing war that has been, and will continue to rage between corporations unless we stop buying into the hype and do our own research. Stop believing what you hear and find out for yourself, this incidently applies to far more than just engine oil i'm afraid.
12-11-2008, 06:34 PM
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. Just pointing out that engine oil does NOT breakdown in the convential way we think of by it becoming "thinner". Lets put this myth to rest and realize that it's all about keeping your engine from extensive friction. Engine oil breakdown is widely misunderstood and that is used against us (the consumer) in a marketing war that has been, and will continue to rage between corporations unless we stop buying into the hype and do our own research. Stop believing what you hear and find out for yourself, this incidently applies to far more than just engine oil i'm afraid.
i advise everyone to read this but especially the OP i think the question is not what brand to use but what weight to use etc.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles
this is a very long read but it is well worth it and you will never look at oil the same again
12-11-2008, 06:43 PM
#53
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I will say it once more; it is a popular misconception that oil breaks down, it in fact simply gets dirty. It does not "thin out" it actually thickens due to engine wear deposits. I have yet to see oil in any engine get thinner. I don't recommend doing this but if you were to run your engine for as long as possible on the same oil what would you have? A thin liquid substance, or sludgy thick syrup-like liquid. Think hard on this before you answer. Oil does NOT break down under any circumstances unless you are talking of a time period far beyond the life of any vehicle (10,000 years plus!) I respect your opinion on your preference though and I have yet to hear any conclusive research that Pennzoil is not a great choice in engine oil.
12-11-2008, 08:34 PM
#54
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Well I understood that you said it thins out quicker and that is the part that is incorrect. Motor oil will never be thinner than the day it was put in your vehicle. More dirty yes, thicker yes, but break down or thinner, no. If you find that the oil is too thin for your application, simply change the weight, a brand change is not necessarily the answer.
12-11-2008, 08:36 PM
#55
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your right oil doesnt get thinner but the additives DO break down
i advise everyone to read this but especially the OP i think the question is not what brand to use but what weight to use etc.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles
this is a very long read but it is well worth it and you will never look at oil the same again
i advise everyone to read this but especially the OP i think the question is not what brand to use but what weight to use etc.
http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/faq...=haas_articles
this is a very long read but it is well worth it and you will never look at oil the same again
12-12-2008, 12:33 PM
#56
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:Newbie Warning: I agree that almost any Synthetic oil will be adequate.
I only ran Mobil 1 Synth in my 94 Formula.
I tried Mobil 1 Synth, Royal Purple and Amsoil in my 92 Stealth Twin Turbo...all three did a great job from what I could tell. Stealths have BAD lifter tick and the only oil that did a really good job of getting rid of it (in my experience) was the Amsoil. The Royal Purple did a slightly better job then the Mobil 1. It just seemed to run smoother with Amsoil in it, granted that's with the butt dyno. So take it with a grain a salt.
This same argument goes on ALL THE TIME on the 3000GT/Stealth boards, but more people like Royal Purple there then here it seems.
I run Castrol Syntec in my 97 ZX6R and it's great.
I just bought my 01 T/A and haven't decided what I'm going to run in it when the oil change comes due. Might use Castrol or Amsoil...
I will say this though (putting on flame suit) I ONLY use WIX oil filters.
I only ran Mobil 1 Synth in my 94 Formula.
I tried Mobil 1 Synth, Royal Purple and Amsoil in my 92 Stealth Twin Turbo...all three did a great job from what I could tell. Stealths have BAD lifter tick and the only oil that did a really good job of getting rid of it (in my experience) was the Amsoil. The Royal Purple did a slightly better job then the Mobil 1. It just seemed to run smoother with Amsoil in it, granted that's with the butt dyno.
So take it with a grain a salt.This same argument goes on ALL THE TIME on the 3000GT/Stealth boards, but more people like Royal Purple there then here it seems.
I run Castrol Syntec in my 97 ZX6R and it's great.
I just bought my 01 T/A and haven't decided what I'm going to run in it when the oil change comes due. Might use Castrol or Amsoil...
I will say this though (putting on flame suit) I ONLY use WIX oil filters.
12-13-2008, 08:13 AM
#57
Im running M1 in my LS truck right now. Its now a bit louder in the valvetrain and I will be going back to Royal Purple. In all truth, like stated, if you use regular maintenance you wont have a problem with any of these oil's. I know when the motor in my truck blows up or my WS6, it will have been my fault, and not the oil for sure!
12-16-2008, 08:27 AM
#58
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I normally run either Mobil 1 or Royal Purple synthetics in everything I own. They are quality products.
A lot of it comes down to your personal preference as well as how much you want to spend on a quality oil.
A lot of it comes down to your personal preference as well as how much you want to spend on a quality oil.