turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
#1
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
A friend of mine recieved an 400hp/420tq LS1 fron turnkey engine supply. i checked the heads they were untoched 241's and a normal f-body ls1 intake.
the guy on the phone said they generate more like 420hp. when asked what was modded he said they just add headers/glasspacks and tuning with a stand-alone delphi ecm(with speed density, no maf). i asked if it was cammed and it said it had factory .500 cam in it.
nothing is touched in the engine.
dont these engine's produce like 320hp at the flywheel stock?
how can you generate 100hp with just stright exhaust and tuning? sounds like a crock to me
the guy on the phone said they generate more like 420hp. when asked what was modded he said they just add headers/glasspacks and tuning with a stand-alone delphi ecm(with speed density, no maf). i asked if it was cammed and it said it had factory .500 cam in it.
nothing is touched in the engine.
dont these engine's produce like 320hp at the flywheel stock?
how can you generate 100hp with just stright exhaust and tuning? sounds like a crock to me
#2
TECH Senior Member
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
LS1s make about about 350-370 at the flywheel. They make anywhere between about 285-320 RWHP stock (depending on many factors including year model and drivetrain selection.)
Do people actually still use glasspacks? LOL!
Do people actually still use glasspacks? LOL!
#3
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
they make the engines for sandrails, they have the glass packs integrated into the headers. the headers go straight out to the side then back.
#4
TECH Addict
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 2,551
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
Actually stock LS1's make like 400-420 at the flywheel when equipped with headers and bolt-ons and when properly tuned.
The only person I've heard of trying this on an engine dyno is Myron of TPIS.
Eric
The only person I've heard of trying this on an engine dyno is Myron of TPIS.
Eric
#5
8 Second Club
iTrader: (16)
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
LS1s make about about 350-370 at the flywheel. They make anywhere between about 285-320 RWHP stock (depending on many factors including year model and drivetrain selection.)
Do people actually still use glasspacks? LOL!
Do people actually still use glasspacks? LOL!
#6
TECH Apprentice
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Brew City, WI
Posts: 360
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
LS1s make about about 350-370 at the flywheel. They make anywhere between about 285-320 RWHP stock (depending on many factors including year model and drivetrain selection.)
Do people actually still use glasspacks? LOL!
Do people actually still use glasspacks? LOL!
Trending Topics
#8
TECH Veteran
iTrader: (1)
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
Dynomax claims they have some kind of ceramic stuff in them; that should make them last longer than a traditional glass pack.
The LS1 engine in an Fbody is rated either at 320 or 325 hp depending on whether it's an SS, Firehawk or just a standard Camaro or Firebird. The LS1's that come in Corvettes are the ones rated for 350 hp, but they have a different cam than the Fbody version. The cam with 0.500" lift that he was refering to only comes in the Corvette LS1. From what I've seen, these factory flywheel ratings are pretty close for the settup as built by GM, i.e. no mods.
The LS1 engine in an Fbody is rated either at 320 or 325 hp depending on whether it's an SS, Firehawk or just a standard Camaro or Firebird. The LS1's that come in Corvettes are the ones rated for 350 hp, but they have a different cam than the Fbody version. The cam with 0.500" lift that he was refering to only comes in the Corvette LS1. From what I've seen, these factory flywheel ratings are pretty close for the settup as built by GM, i.e. no mods.
#9
TECH Senior Member
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
"From what I've seen, these factory flywheel ratings are pretty close for the settup as built by GM, i.e. no mods."
Cal, you tellin' me you believe an engine rated at 305 FWHP can logically put down the 310-320 RWHP that many stock cars do? GM rates their engines at the flywheel while a chassis dyno obviously tests them at the ground.
GM WAY underrates these engines.
Cal, you tellin' me you believe an engine rated at 305 FWHP can logically put down the 310-320 RWHP that many stock cars do? GM rates their engines at the flywheel while a chassis dyno obviously tests them at the ground.
GM WAY underrates these engines.
#10
TECH Resident
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: orlando, florida
Posts: 948
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
I think all LS1s had a .500 lift cam in them until 2000 or 2001 when they went to the truck cam and other then the zo6 the vette and f-body ls1 were the same internally and dynoed close to the same. I also think that a ls1 with good exhaust and tune could put 420hp to the flywheel easy. just my .02 cents
#11
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
how about the use of speed density over maf?
i thought maf was much better at seeing airflow than speed density with a low vacuum cam, if the cam was upgraded.
i thought maf was much better at seeing airflow than speed density with a low vacuum cam, if the cam was upgraded.
#12
Staging Lane
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Middle East
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
yes, but without the MAF up front, you can take advantage of things like the 90mm throttle bodies coming out for the 90mm FAST LSX intakes, because right now the biggest MAF is 85 mm I believe. So you lose that restriction point. More air = more power
#13
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: turn key engine- crock o' $H*t
yeah but without a big cam you wont get any more air....i just thought maf was better for breathing cams. not to mention these engines are gm crate engines.
#14
Launching!
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Oceanside CA
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Gen3Benz
yeah but without a big cam you wont get any more air....i just thought maf was better for breathing cams. not to mention these engines are gm crate engines.
#15
TECH Addict
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,065
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Speed density is fine in with a TPS. You can crossover the TPS signal at low rpm's to run alpha-n rather than speed density to maintain fueling. Most race cars like sandrails i'm guessing don't care much about gracefulness of low load and low idle, but more about WOT and hauling much ***
almost every standalone uses a TPS and map sensor, rarely do they incorporate maf signal unless its some sort of piggyback or super custom rig.
i don't really consider maf-tweakers standalone, but alot of folks tout some as such. More like piggybacks.
almost every standalone uses a TPS and map sensor, rarely do they incorporate maf signal unless its some sort of piggyback or super custom rig.
i don't really consider maf-tweakers standalone, but alot of folks tout some as such. More like piggybacks.
#17
TECH Enthusiast
Thread Starter
iTrader: (4)
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Phoenix AZ
Posts: 633
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Scott Turvey
are you talking about the turnkey engine supply motors being gm crate engines?
running speed density without 02's.
#18
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My 337 RWHP divided by .80 (20 % drivetrain loss) = 421.25 flywheel HP...Bolt on ONLY, stock TB, stock MAF, No LS6 intake.
On a cold day, 358 Actual RWHP divided by .8 = 447.5 Actual flywheel HP...
these motors can do it stock, if they're teamed with good bolt-ons.
now that i think about it 421 horsepower under the hood is pretty cool!!!!
On a cold day, 358 Actual RWHP divided by .8 = 447.5 Actual flywheel HP...
these motors can do it stock, if they're teamed with good bolt-ons.
now that i think about it 421 horsepower under the hood is pretty cool!!!!
#19
11 Second Club
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 643
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by DeepBlueZ
My 337 RWHP divided by .80 (20 % drivetrain loss) = 421.25 flywheel HP...Bolt on ONLY, stock TB, stock MAF, No LS6 intake.
On a cold day, 358 Actual RWHP divided by .8 = 447.5 Actual flywheel HP...
these motors can do it stock, if they're teamed with good bolt-ons.
now that i think about it 421 horsepower under the hood is pretty cool!!!!
On a cold day, 358 Actual RWHP divided by .8 = 447.5 Actual flywheel HP...
these motors can do it stock, if they're teamed with good bolt-ons.
now that i think about it 421 horsepower under the hood is pretty cool!!!!
#20
TECH Fanatic
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by kjmdrumz3
Actually you multiply the fwhp to get the rwhp, but since we are working in reverse: 406 fwhp X 0.83 (drivetrain loss....you lose NO MORE than 17%on an A4, around 12-14%on a M6)= 336.98rwhp. So you ALOT closer to 406 than 420-whatever.
also, with a loose converter, you CAN lose more than 17%, i've had 4 dyno techs verify that high stalls leave power in the transmission...20% is not unheard of...usually you hear around 16-18% on a stock TC and 19-22% on a loose high stall....hence my guess of 421 fwhp...if i've been misinformed about this, someone let me know, but just about everyone i talk to seems to agree that its accurate....
for the sake of argument i will use your numbers anyway...how did get 406 hp?? i kind of doubt you picked numbers out of the air until you were able to multiply your way to 337 rwhp...you divided 337 by .83 and got 406...now do it in reverse...see?
Lastly, to prove what i was going for anyway, even with the 17 percent loss, the 400 hp rating of your turn key engine is accurate....