taws6

iTrader: (2)

Why not FTRA AND JAAM AIR?

This is more a topic for Trans Am, Ram Air cars.

I had a thread on this a while ago, but would like to reopen the debate.
I agree this is not a huge hp mod, but I do think it's worth something.

In my eyes, the Jaam air is basicly the factory ram air debaffeled and sealed to the lid.
And FTRA is basicly the same as SSRA, which are both an extension for the FRA mod.

QUESTION: Does the intake manifold 'suck' in air like a vacume?

If it does, I can't see why FTRA and sealing the hood to the airbox wouldn't be better than one or the other.
I spoke before with FTP (Been really helpfull, great company to deal with), and they said if I had FTRA, (I do) I should seal the front of the air box to benefit from the cold air from the FTRA. Leaving it open would cause turbalance, making the FTRA work not as well. But that is with factory Ram, that is not sealed to the lid. If you seal your Ram Air to the lid and debaffel the hood, AND have a FTRA, surely it is only sealed to cold air sorces, and if the intake sucks in air, then even better?

I can't imagin having an extra sorce of cold air would stop the intake manifold drawing in air.

And as for water entering the ram air with it debaffeled, I would have thought it would be more likely to drip down the FTRA / FRA, than get 'sucked' up onto the air filter??

I'm sure this debate will go on longer than this thread, but would like some more input, to help me understand........

TheBlueKnight

iTrader: (4)

I can answer one for sure, the engine cylinders ARE sucking in air like a vacuum.

taws6

iTrader: (2)

So, the $1 million question: Would a 60mph wind blowing into the intake, make more air enter the engine, than would of been sucked in without the wind?

therealcreeper

iTrader: (37)

here's what i think, just because it makes some sense in my head:

typically you won't notice a gain or loss from an ssra or ftra on a dyno as far as i've seen. on the dyno it's still getting that colder air, yet very little to no gain, which seems to suggest that at some point the air does indeed get "rammed" into the intake manifold resulting in the increase in track times.

someone on here was doing some calculations and testing(i'm not sure how accurate) but i think at around 100mph or something a completely sealed box with some form of ram air actually started to build about 1psi of pressure or something along those lines

and the reason people only run one or the other seems to be because you want the air to only have one path that it can possibly follow; into the engine. if you have for example an ssra and the hood sealed to the box, whichever one is cramming in more air can then push some of it down into the other allowing it to escape or at least create enough disruption in smooth air flow to decrease effectiveness to some extent

taws6

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the reply therealcreeper.

I see the principal behind what your saying. I guess because it's hard to accurately test and prove, is the reason I've not had many replys to this thread, with the old 'does ram air work' question lol.

So, it sounds like having only one sealed cold air induction only starts to build pressure at 100 mph +.
I don't often drive that fast, so I guess I might be better having both open?
I currently have FTRA with the front of the air box sealed, and the hood bedaffeled.

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

You are only as strong as your weakest ram air…so if you have two systems and one supplies more air than the other then the excess air will escape the inlet of the other…same as a tank of air that is connected with two lines one supplying 2 psi while the other is supplying 10 psi…the actual tank pressure assuming the line are large enough will only be ~2 psi because the extra 8 psi will escape through the 2psi line…

Now as for your other point yes the intake lid will see around -6 inches of H20 when under WOT with the stock configuration…so it is under vacuum…is one ram air source big enough to supply plently of air to the engine under full load to keep positive pressure inside of the lid….in my case with my custom ram air yes…even at low speeds of 20mph the lid had positive pressure so that leads to the fact that there is sufficient air be supplied by the ram air…

Take a read at this thread if you haven’t already…

https://ls1tech.com/forums/advanced-...ng-around.html

taws6

iTrader: (2)

Hi Chris,

I did have a read of your tests before, and found them a very interesting read. (I'm no advanced tech, so I was a little wary of posting comments).

When you did the two tests, (breathing from the 1inch slit infront lid), did you debaffel the hood and seal the airbox to only get cold air?

IMHO, if either of the ram air methods can provide enough cold air for the engine's needs, then two openings are unnessecairy.
I have no way of knowing if either method provides enough air, so figured mabey plenty of cold air was better.

I thought of it like this, kind of crude, but you get the idea.
Put 1 straw in your mouth and breath in.
Now take 2 straws in your mouth and breath in, gotta be easier with 2.

I guess what your saying is having two open is like having a hole half way along the straw.
But if that hole is connected to cold air then it shouldn't be a problem?

From my unscientific point of view:

I would of thought pressure increasing in the lid would indicate a struggle to get enough air, and the engine 'sucking' more.

IMO, if you hold an open empty 1 litre bottle, opening toward the wind, and drive at 100mph, surely there is still only 1 litre of air in the bottle?
I can't understand how, without colder denser air (from FI), or n2o, how it's possable to fit more than 1 litre of air into a 1 litre bottle (or in this case a engine).

Mabey this question would help my understanding.
If you added a cone shape to the neck of the bottle (bigger end to the wind),drive 100mph, would the air get forced at higher pressure through the small end of the cone?

I guess mabey the straw test is wrong if instead of sucking in air, the air is being blown in.

I don't understand the equipment you used in your experiment, but props to you for trying to find out if ram air does work. I'm sure if I come to understand all the vairables I will agree with your results.

To conclude, can the factory ram air (debaffeled and sealed to LID), provide enough air for the engine when it's at WOT?????

chrs1313

iTrader: (24)

i will poat tomorrow and clear up all your questions...gotta run right now...