stangkillin

Hey guys. Ive been reading around on this forum for a while and now that im in the market for an LS1 i decided to join. Im looking for a 98-02 z28 or trans am. If yall have things that i need to look out for let me know.

thegodfather899

iTrader: (1)

M6 or a4?

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

It would help if you added a location to your profile...it'll help people know where you might be looking.

If it were me, I'd limit my search to an '01 or '02 car...they already have the LS6 intake, and most all bugs were worked out by those years. '99s had gauge cluster problems, '98s have a lot of unique-to-that-model year kinda stuff (different gas tank, different PCM, etc). The only problem with looking for an '01 or '02 car is that they'll usually fetch a higher price since they are a bit newer, but to me it would be worth it. Oh, and a lot of these cars have problems with the sail panel bubbling...I had to fix mine a couple years ago on my own dime, and it is not a cheap fix ($500-$1000 depending on where you source the panel).

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

No sail panel issues if you buy a '98 built before 05/98. That's one reason to get an early model car.

Personally, I would not worry as much about the model year as I would about price, condition, and getting the options you want. My advice is to find the best condition car you can, for the money you have to spend, that has the primary options that you want. I'd MUCH rather have a '98 car with 50k miles in excellent condition than an '02 car with 100k miles in rougher condition. IMO, the only real advantage to the '01+ cars in the LS6 intake, which can always be added to any year car. If you are planning a really extreme setup, then the later model PCMs will offer some advantages, but for a basic bolt-on or even heads/cam car, any good tuner can do just fine with any year PCM.

As an owner of both a '98 and an '02, I can tell you that there is no magic to the late model year cars; an LS1 is an LS1.

Capricio

I dunno... the 2001+ have LS6 intake, EGR delete, LS6 valley cover (oil consumption reduction), slightly bigger injectors. There ARE tangible advantages, for sure, aside from just being newer.

As mentioned earlier, there are some things unique to the 98s, too. You won't be able to ever run a newer 85mm MAF with the older style PCM, the fuel pump harness different, not major issues, just be aware.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

Don't forget the negatives though.

- the injectors on '01+ are only bigger than the '99-'00 cars. '98s get the same larger injectors as the '01+ cars.

- '01+ gets a weaker flexplate that has been known to crack even at stock power levels.

- '99+ gets the torsen rear, which some of us don't like as much as the auburn posi of the '98s.

- '01+ seems to have a much worse case of piston slap. My '02 sounds like a diesel, my '98 is dead silent. And this is not just the case with my cars, most LS1s that I hear with piston slap turn out to be '01+ cars.

- There are also some cosmetic issues, like the cheaper window trim introduced in early '01, and the smaller rear-view mirror also introduced in '01. Plus the roof bubbling issue for the 05/98 and later cars.

Many of the advantages/disadvantages can be upgraded on any of the model years. In the end, if you have certain specific goals for the car, then you *may* be better off to start with a certain model year. But for the average person that intends to do average things with the car, I still maintain that you're best off to prioritize buying the nicest condition car within your budget that has the options you want, not just the newest one you can find.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

The LS6 valley cover was not standard - the PCV system still pulls from the valve covers. I had to convert my '02 to an LS6 valley cover myself.

Capricio

I have a 2000 WS6. I guess I assumed you got the valley cover with the intake. The grinding required for that installation was not fun, and no matter how well you try to cover everything, you'll end up with some "sparklies" in your next oil change.

And yes, for whatever reason, 2000s have the smallest/weakest injectors of all 5 model years. Oddly, I was pleased to find sodium filled valves when I had my heads off. Wasn't expecting that, and have no idea why they were there. My friend said sometimes GM would run out standard valves and would be forced borrow the upgraded valves to keep production moving. Anyways, I think it was a fluke and wouldn't bet on finding them in another car.

Auburn vs Torsen I could see as a compelling argument to prefer earlier models. The other advantages seem a little superficial, and some of the alleged problems with later years seem to be based on anecdotal evidence. Maybe someone else can verify that the cam profiles were exactly the same for all model years?

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Oh yeah...I remember the day I took a Dremel to my block It all worked out in the end, but man I was nervous.

I think the cam got a little smaller in '01 (and stayed that way for '02)...if I'm not mistaken, that's how they got away with not having the EGR.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

yup.. 01, 02 got a different cam, little less aggressive iirc but they changed the duration to make up for it? there's stock specs on here somewhere.

they ditched AIR and EGR on those. 98-00 afaik has air and egr still on it. I know 2000 does, but I'm about to fix that.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

'01s and '02s still had the AIR system...EGR was the only thing eliminated.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

oh. Well you don't NEED AIR to pass inspections, cept maybe visual. it's easy enough to eliminate.

I thought that the 01,02 lids didn't have the bung in them for the air inlet tho?

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

Mine sure did.

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

That's subjective. What is superficial to some might not be to others. Also, some people find certain things easier to change/upgrade than others, and some items will matter more or less, depending on the intended useage of the car.

I can verify it right now. They are not the same. Here are the specs:

98-00:

Duration@.050 198.86 intake 209.25 exhaust
Lift .498 intake .497 exhausts
LSA 119.45

01-02:

Duration@.050 196.37 intake 208.72 exhaust
Lift .464 intake .479 exhausts
LSA 115.92

RPM WS6

iTrader: (3)

No, the '00-'02 cars all have/need that bung unless you have deleted AIR. '98-'99 cars do not need the bung, as their AIR systems do not draw air from the air lid.

stangkillin

I am in Minot ND so there aint a thing for sale up here. the options im looking for are t-tops, leather, and 6 speed. thats all i really care about. I think im gonna go for the 01-02 for the manifold because I want to do a head/cam car.

Capricio

Back on topic,

Common things that break:

Interior/trim: Shoulder guides for seatlbelts, door panel cracks next to the window (Pontiacs), window stabilizer guides (from people shutting the door by pushing on the glass), center console cover (excessive mashing from elbows), dashboard cracks, factory radio displays. OEM speakers are likely to have some failures by now.

Engine: Piston slap, valve train ticks, pre-detonation on acceleration. These engines love to suck oil into the intake manifold, which can carbon up the pistons.

Body: Pinch weld mutilation from people jacking up on the wrong point. Cracked cats, torque ripples in the fenders, paint spiderwebs from people stepping on bumpers. And a lot of things you'd look for on any car (bondo, etc).

Lots of cars regularly in the Phoenix craigslist. You can fly down on the cheap using Allegiant. Almost gauranteed 100% rust free.

DarkFox118

iTrader: (7)

people down here are REAL proud of Fbody cars, cheapest you're gonna see is high 6s, but they are for sale.

and yet mine is somehow worthless.. go figure. Maybe my ownership of it decreases it's value or something where someone else's would not.

anyway..


if you find one, tell them NOT to warm it up before you get there if possible so you can hear the cold start. Also, don't be alarmed if it sounds like hell when it's cold and don't beat on it when it's cold.

ls1 is a noisy engine, as capricio said, valve tick and piston slap is normal and common. Piston slap does not denote a problem, valve tick? well maybe.

check the a/c, even if it's winter, see if the compressor clicks in and if it works. Wobble the glass a little, if it moves a lot, those stabilizer guides are broken. I haven't found a driver's door yet that has these in tact.

check the door hinge and make sure the door isn't busted at the spring, some people lean on the doors and over time can bust a hole right there.

pull the passenger side rear hatch cover with the speaker in it off (it has 3 "screws" that say lock/unlock) and take a look inside. Look for water damage, sometimes these cars leak in there. Mine did, but I fixed it. Also the spare tire and equipment is in there, or should be. A lot of people take them out. I did, but that's because mine was bald anyway. (who balds a compact spare?? )

look on the door for a GU# this will determine your rearend.

most Z/SS 6spds are gonna say GU6, that's a 3.42. That's what you want. GU5 is 3.23 and GU2 is 2.73s common on A4 cars.

MeentSS02

iTrader: (11)

The door panel cracks aren't limited to Pontiacs...mine had this problem as well. I replaced my driver's side panel that cracked, and I caught the passenger side just in time before it did. It can be fixed, but it is easier to catch it before it happens. The fix is relatively easy, but does take some time.

Capricio

Those staples were a biatch....

http://www.highperformancepontiac.co.../photo_02.html