apathy

Most of them I see aren't trying to convince you they are better, they are trying to show you that all cars have their strengths and weaknesses.

No offense, but trying to say that a 3300lb RWD F-body is some handling dream sounds more like rice to me than most of what I've heard on this board. And, ironically, as much as you guys talk about magazine racers, you all are happy to use skidpad numbers from magazines.

Also whoever was talking about price of F-body vs. Evo...give me a break. How about a $2000 dollar DSM with $3000 in mods running high 12's? Why aren't you driving that?

This is the same reason a 16 year old driving an 89 honda accord with a coffee can for a muffler and a huge wing will tell you his car is better. Because he didn't pay as much for his as you did. Comparing cars from different years based on price isn't even like comparing apples and oranges. It's like comparing houses and hotdogs.

They are all cars, people. 4 wheels and an engine. Just drive them.

apathy

Take 10 random drivers and let them race through an autox course twice, once with an fbody, once with the evo. I'd bet you money the top times will come from the evo.

Like I said, if you are good at driving RWD, it can be nasty fast. If you aren't, you will have better luck with AWD. Most people aren't good at it.

Dal1as

Actually I agree with you there. The AWD is going to be easier to drive for the every day driver on an autocross course. Less chance of spinning, etc. I love seeing people in rear wheel driver cars let off the gas suddenly in the corner. Spin city. Some people just aren't used to pushing a car to it's limit. When it's pushed though. An F-bod in the right hands can be awesome in the corners. Especially with better tires.

apathy

Yeppers.

So it really becomes a question of qualifications.

Car A will run through an autox course in 1:30-1:35 for 10 out of 10 drivers.

Car B will run through the same course in 1:25 for 2 out of 10 drivers, and 1:40 for 8 out of 10.

Which handles better? Just your opinion on what you want I suppose.

Excal

umm.AWD cars don't do high lateral G's, but that HAS LITTLE to do with performance around a track.

The STI and EVO are former rally champions, and will leave an F-bod for dead in a race.

Solid rear axle FRONT heavy cars, are not suited for road races.

The z06 pulls 1.00Gs, and happens to be obviously a great handler, the GTO also better than the F-bods the the Aussies always had the one up on the fbods in that respect.

I've seen trans ams get blown away by a RSX in SCCA racing on the speed channel..thing is RSX was running in the GT class and the Trans am in the moer powerful GTS class. They were both basically stock in the engine.

they also had S4s in there, they won't do great Gs, but let the road be DAMP and they owned 1-2 place too easily.

It's not a coincidence that AUDI has won Lemans (200mph turnimng left AND right) with its copied Quattro AWD.

ActionJack

Now the thread is making sense.

Personally, I have driven my Firebird for the last 4 winters every day. I have been out on the roads when 4x4s are sliding out of control. I am proud of my abilities in different driving conditions with my car.

Driving to work I have had a chance with no cars around to take one of the corners at 40 to 45 and have the rear end start to fish tale but with a slight off the gas and then extra gas I am pushing it in the direction I want without any loss of control. That to me is driving fun.

Then again I had an Audi Allroad one night and was doing 65 mph on the freeway in 2 inches of ice and snow with trucks and others doing 40-45 tops at night with little traffic (I do not drive in heavy traffic 20 over the others cars) and the Audi did all the driving for me. I felt very secure in that car but not once did my heart increase or my attention go firmly on the road and my car.

I guess with 3 kids and a wife and a job the only time I have is when I am driving. So, I make it as much fun as possible.


I like what you two said (apathy and Dal1as).

FastRThnU

That's awesome.

absolut_speed

iTrader: (1)

The class you are referring to is ESP. The reason the F-body is competitive for now is that there are very few high caliber drivers running Evos and STI's since they are new. Compare that to F-body and Mustang drivers who have been in that class forever. Fbody and Mustang drivers have had years to develop setups.

If Evos and STI's are lesser, then why are the highest caliber, national Mustang and F-body autocrossers complaining in an 11 page thread over at sccaforums?

So tell me, if an F-body outhandles and outpowers these cars, why did the SCCA stick them in the same class?

I'd love to hear or see these "facts" you were presented.

This whole thread is full of half-witted, short-sighted dimwits.

How many of you have driven these cars back to back in a race environment and truly feel they are qualified to judge which car is the better racing machine?

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

**about everything your guys are saying. Hell I will go WAY out on a lim and say the F body gets beat by the EVO and STi's. I would still never drive either ulgy ricer.
I will do a few mods to my LS1 and peace on those ** and do it in style.

absolut_speed

iTrader: (1)

Way to add your own special touch of class to the thread.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

Why thanks, and hopefully noone on this site will argue that LS1's aren't better looking.

Iv_z28

I love how the facts get twisted around in only 1 page

This thread was started by the magazine claims that EVO's ounhandle and outperform everything including vettes and GT2's. Now all of a sudden some people jump to the EVO defence, like somebody was trying to say EVO's are crap.

NOBODY really said anything negative about EVO's, except may be some sarcastic remarks about rice in general. However I did see some contemplations that f-body's are inferior to EVO's, can't handle, bla-bla-bla.

So: the way I see it: f-body is under attack but people defend EVO?

apathy

This thread was started because of action jack's complaints about how WRX and Evo drivers talk about that they outhandle many cars. He looked up the magazine numbers because of that.

And people are saying Evos are crap. It's hard to believe so many of you can sit here, look at a skidpad number, and go "well of course, my 3300lb RWD car without an IRS handles better than an AWD rally inspired race car." Which just goes to prove my point that as much as you all talk smack about the magazine-racers, you have just as many.

And this is an ls1 message board, why do you think an f-body would be under attack?

apathy

Hopefully you don't **personal attack**

I'm certainly glad that the majority of you aren't producing cars, because we would all be driving around in the exact same thing. You take your opinion, and for some reason feel that everyone else must agree with you.

This is like saying "Hopefully nobody will argue that a black trans-am looks the best."

Dal1as

Look, I go by the data presented to me. The SCCA stuck them in the same class because the averages driven were close (fact). A solid rear axles is not that much of a detriment in a flat course without alot of bumps and incline changes and contrary to popular belief the F-bod has a better weight distribution than the WRX, STI, or EVO. (fact)

Not to mention the Evo has been around for years so it's not like they are brand new. (fact) I haven't driven the EVO but I did like the STI when I drove it. Nevertheless I know how to drive my TA and it handles better. It's not easier to drive but is faster all around. All it took was better tires. Suspension will be next. (my opinion)

As for the dimwit comment. Dude, if you have to get that emotional where you start calling people names on the internet (without being provoked) you have issues. Have to love the internet know it all tough guys. Easy to read...

(FACT)

zchgla

Lets start putting up some facts here on how f bod's arent as shitty as people think the handling is. thats all i hear 'they handle like ****' 'ya its fast, but it dosent handle'. im ready to make some ricers shut the **** up.

apathy

Evo != Lancer.

Unless you are talking about the Evolutions which were produced overseas. 2003 was the first Evo here.

Iv_z28

That's exactly what got me confused - why would you talk crap about f-body's on f-body website? Here is your own very first reply:

You come here and claim that f-body is a straight-line only car.
Any intelligent person knows that is not true. I don't plan to argue about that. Go find some teenagers are ricers, they'll be the perfect audience. In some sense EVO's and STI are better race cars, and in some cases (f.e. weight distribution and ultimate grip) they are not.

Now, I'll also go on to say that another point of that thread is that magazine claims about EVO performance are highly exaggerated. However, I don't think anybody actually said anything to the point that EVO cannot handle, accelerate or brake.

Iv_z28

Exactly. I would also add that the claim that AWD is easier to drive is mute. The truth is - this is only true if you know how to drive AWD. For me personally it's definitely much easier to correctly drive RWD. It's just easier to control - press the gas /lift the gas and the nose goes where you want it... AWD, especially computer controlled AWD, their the power is redistributed by the computer, is a different story..

apathy

1. I didn't say straight line only. I said they are intended to be straight line cars. They have ALWAYS been intended to be a straight line car. The power comes first, handling second. You can do whatever you want with them. Same reason you can take a honda civic to the drag strip.

You disagree? How many people on this board use these cars to autocross? Now, how many of them take them to the strip? Don't you find that a bit odd? All of the kills in the street racing section are straight line kills. Very interesting...

2. They are not sports cars. That wasn't an insult, it's a fact. The corvette is a sports car. The f-bodies are pony cars.

3. In every sense, comparing the Evo and the F-body is ignorant. They are designed for different things.

4. What's the point in arguing which handles better anyway? You could be in the best handling car in the world and still run it off the road because you drive like a clown. The driver affects the car the most.