Is it worth it for me to use e85 with my nitrous?
Is it worth it for me to use e85 with my nitrous? I am about to go direct port and get a standalone system. Planned on using E85 in the standalone for up to a 250 shot and 93 octane in the fuel tank. Might possible use high octane race fuel in the tank while at the track. Anyhow I have a few questions about using E85 and if it is worth it.
1. When spraying would E85 be easier on parts like rings and pistons since it burns cooler than gas/race gas?
2. Will I get more power using E85 with nitrous than gas/race gas? Why?
3. My car ran best NA with a AFR of 13.5:1, since I am now using E85(partial meth) in the standalone how do I figure my AFR? Do I still keep my wideband oxygen sensor reading gasoline figures or do I need to switch it to read the meth?
4. Is it going to be hard to read the spark plugs because of the meth? I thought I heard it tends to clean things up.
5. Is it worth it?
1. When spraying would E85 be easier on parts like rings and pistons since it burns cooler than gas/race gas?
2. Will I get more power using E85 with nitrous than gas/race gas? Why?
3. My car ran best NA with a AFR of 13.5:1, since I am now using E85(partial meth) in the standalone how do I figure my AFR? Do I still keep my wideband oxygen sensor reading gasoline figures or do I need to switch it to read the meth?
4. Is it going to be hard to read the spark plugs because of the meth? I thought I heard it tends to clean things up.
5. Is it worth it?
#1 e85 is more corrosive but I don't believe it is better or worse on wrings and pistons.
#2 You can get more power because just like race fuel you can run more timing.
I don't know about 3 or 4.
#5 If it were me I would stick with race fuel for your stand alone. There is a good deal of info already recorded about e85 and performance but nothing compared to the knowledge and info we have about race fuel.
In short e85 can be very complicated and hard to work with as apposed to race fuel that is rather simple. The money you save on each gallon e85 is not a good offset for the potential problems you run into building your system for e85. That is my opinion.
#2 You can get more power because just like race fuel you can run more timing.
I don't know about 3 or 4.
#5 If it were me I would stick with race fuel for your stand alone. There is a good deal of info already recorded about e85 and performance but nothing compared to the knowledge and info we have about race fuel.
In short e85 can be very complicated and hard to work with as apposed to race fuel that is rather simple. The money you save on each gallon e85 is not a good offset for the potential problems you run into building your system for e85. That is my opinion.
Stick with race fuel. E85 burns 2 or 3 times faster then race gas which if you do not comensate for the fuel with your injetors it can go lean. THEN BOOM. no more motor.
This is the case with any fuel setup so this isn't a good explination of why not. But I do agree that with the amount of e85 needed and the minimal amount of info out there it is harder to keep it where you want it.
There is alot of MISINFORMATION on E85; the above statement is incorrect. E85 burns at basically the same rate as gasoline.
E85 is 85% ETHANOL. ETHANOL is what gets you drunk when you drink an alcoholic beverage. It is NOT METHANOL. If you drank METHANOL, you would die. METHANOL is corrosive. ETHANOL is no more corrosive than gasoline.
E85 is 85% ETHANOL. ETHANOL is what gets you drunk when you drink an alcoholic beverage. It is NOT METHANOL. If you drank METHANOL, you would die. METHANOL is corrosive. ETHANOL is no more corrosive than gasoline.
What you really need to determine is the AFR you need for the setup. If you decide to run different size shots, you will need to aim for different AFRs. Simply gunning for 11.X:1 will not work when using a mix of E85.
Remember, more E85 is required than E10 or race gas. More fuel means less room for air. It probably won't effect 99% of our combos, but something to consider.
Remember, more E85 is required than E10 or race gas. More fuel means less room for air. It probably won't effect 99% of our combos, but something to consider.
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There is alot of MISINFORMATION on E85; the above statement is incorrect. E85 burns at basically the same rate as gasoline.
E85 is 85% ETHANOL. ETHANOL is what gets you drunk when you drink an alcoholic beverage. It is NOT METHANOL. If you drank METHANOL, you would die. METHANOL is corrosive. ETHANOL is no more corrosive than gasoline.
E85 is 85% ETHANOL. ETHANOL is what gets you drunk when you drink an alcoholic beverage. It is NOT METHANOL. If you drank METHANOL, you would die. METHANOL is corrosive. ETHANOL is no more corrosive than gasoline.
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1) Assumming stoich with both fuels E85 will be easier on your internal parts due to the lower combustion temps. E85 and Ethanol specifically will lower your intake temps twice that of gasoline. Methanol will lower it 3 times that of gasoline.
2) E85 at stoich has a slightly higher energy content than gas at stoich. You can run higher compression ratios due to the higher octane and lower combustion temps, which can enable you to make more power. In reality on a low compression engine its a wash at best.
3) Doesn't matter, leave it alone. The Stoichiometric AFR (the ideal ratio of Air to fuel that results in an idealistic 100% burn) is an aggregate of the fuel(s) being burned. Your O2 sensor is reading how much oxygen is in your exhaust stream regardless of fuel. It is returning a voltage and the conversion factor is applied to that voltage to display a 14.7 in the case of gasolines at stoich. If you were running E85 at Stoich your O2 with the display set for gas may say 14.7 but in reality it is approx 9 to 1(Stoichiometric for E85).
To answer your question; Alcohols all have an oxygen content and like to be over fueled a little. I would run a little richer with E85.
4) Plugs in an Alcohol fueled engine are typically harder to read than gas, but you have O2 readings to go off of anyway. Side benefit being your pistons and valves are much cleaner than with a gas engine.
5) Is it worth it? Thats up to you, but I would say if it is readily available go for it!
2) E85 at stoich has a slightly higher energy content than gas at stoich. You can run higher compression ratios due to the higher octane and lower combustion temps, which can enable you to make more power. In reality on a low compression engine its a wash at best.
3) Doesn't matter, leave it alone. The Stoichiometric AFR (the ideal ratio of Air to fuel that results in an idealistic 100% burn) is an aggregate of the fuel(s) being burned. Your O2 sensor is reading how much oxygen is in your exhaust stream regardless of fuel. It is returning a voltage and the conversion factor is applied to that voltage to display a 14.7 in the case of gasolines at stoich. If you were running E85 at Stoich your O2 with the display set for gas may say 14.7 but in reality it is approx 9 to 1(Stoichiometric for E85).
To answer your question; Alcohols all have an oxygen content and like to be over fueled a little. I would run a little richer with E85.
4) Plugs in an Alcohol fueled engine are typically harder to read than gas, but you have O2 readings to go off of anyway. Side benefit being your pistons and valves are much cleaner than with a gas engine.
5) Is it worth it? Thats up to you, but I would say if it is readily available go for it!
Last edited by TT632; Aug 12, 2010 at 12:19 AM.
