propane\nitrous?
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 133
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From: greenville, ohio
propane\nitrous? i hear that if you run propane with ur nitrous you can gain extra 200hp. is this ture? if yes i would like to know some of the detials on what i would need to install the propane with the nitrous kit that i have. <img border="0" alt="[Camaro]" title="" src="graemlins/camaro.gif" />
Staging Lane
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 90
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From: corpus christi
Re: propane\nitrous? you go ahead and do that cowboy.be sure andlets us know what heaven looks like.dude you cant be serious right?do you know what propane is?its a liquid petroleum.i dunno,but lets us know if it works,lol.
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: greenville, ohio
Re: propane\nitrous? Liquid propane (C3H8) IS a liquid but not at atmospheric pressure or at room temperature. Unless you live in antartica where temperatures get below -43 degrees F propane is a vapor. Propane boils at -44F so therefore it is a gas above that temperature. Also if you pressurize propane to a couple hundred psi it is a liquid.
If you have any doubts check this out:
http://www.propane.ca/english/rego_page1.asp
If you have any doubts check this out:
http://www.propane.ca/english/rego_page1.asp
TECH Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 377
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From: Anderson IN
Re: propane\nitrous? I know on a diesel engine propane works very well, but i do not know if it would work with a gas engine and nitrous. If it did work and added that much more power you better have one hell of a built motor and a killer fuel delivery system. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="gr_eek2.gif" />
Thread Starter
On The Tree
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 133
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From: greenville, ohio
Re: propane\nitrous? i seen that it propane works well with forced induction cars but i can't see them using both thats why i asked. i don't really see it working to geather.
<small>[ November 10, 2002, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: dennis ]</small>
<small>[ November 10, 2002, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: dennis ]</small>
Re: propane\nitrous? Propane likes high compression, so it makes
for some antiknock effect. I guess this may
be why people think you can make more power,
you can up the cylinder pressure without
detonation.
However, propane gas isn't going to have
the energy density of vaporized gasoline
(heavier molecules, more combustibles in
same volume @ pressure/temp, so more of
the intake charge can be air / oxidizer
with gasoline than with propane).
Whether it's intake efficiency or detonation
which limit your maximum power, would tell
you whether propane would be worth the try.
for some antiknock effect. I guess this may
be why people think you can make more power,
you can up the cylinder pressure without
detonation.
However, propane gas isn't going to have
the energy density of vaporized gasoline
(heavier molecules, more combustibles in
same volume @ pressure/temp, so more of
the intake charge can be air / oxidizer
with gasoline than with propane).
Whether it's intake efficiency or detonation
which limit your maximum power, would tell
you whether propane would be worth the try.
Re: propane\nitrous? propane is commonly used by the viper guys, inplace of the gasoline in a wet kit.
I have talked to a few of them, only one had any idea about the system, and said he ran it with 200 psi of LP, and 1100 of N20.
take it for what its worth. Thats just what i was told.
Ryan.
I have talked to a few of them, only one had any idea about the system, and said he ran it with 200 psi of LP, and 1100 of N20.
take it for what its worth. Thats just what i was told.
Ryan.
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Re: propane\nitrous? Like i hlike i have said before, propane is a great knock reducing agent do to its low temperature entering the intake and high octane rating.. GN guys are able to run 2-3psi more then ther water/alki kits on there propane kits per initial testing. plus as an added bonus its fuel in gas for so extra fuel and no chance of puddling.
I have heard some people that run n2o/propane kits that they do not have to retard timing. this will allow a comparible propane wet shot to have more power then the dry shot.
I guess people are always afriad to try somthing new, thats why some people will always be leading others.
<small>[ November 12, 2002, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: smokinHawk ]</small>
I have heard some people that run n2o/propane kits that they do not have to retard timing. this will allow a comparible propane wet shot to have more power then the dry shot.
I guess people are always afriad to try somthing new, thats why some people will always be leading others.
<small>[ November 12, 2002, 09:52 AM: Message edited by: smokinHawk ]</small>
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Re: propane\nitrous? So would it be possible to inject the propane like a 'wet' kit? Meaning to inject it behind the MAF through the intake. I would tend to think the MAF would freak out with propane being injected before it.
Re: propane\nitrous? From what I've gathered from some customer's setups and some personal research, they work well together (propane/nitrous) but tuning perameters are all over the place. I've seen people use foggers to independant fansprays. I've seen the Propane run at lower pressure and other used with bottle warmers. The biggest question seems to be how much propane is required to a given amount of nitrous.
The benefits are definately apparent:
1. No risk of fuel falling out of suspension (puddling)
2. No strain/demand on fuel system.
3. High resistance to detonation (~140 octane)
4. Low cost and high availibility of Propane.
The drawbacks:
1. Two high pressure cylinders in vehicle (one of which IS flamable)
2. Premature O2 sensor failure.
3. Tuning perameters are not well defined.
Seems like a interesting venture for someone to take on but I'm not sure what the real market instrest in the package would be.
BTW- I know a few of the NOS R&D guys are playing with propane as we speak...NOS is headquarterd about 20 mins from here. They still do a lot of dabbling outside of Holley's intrest.
Richard
The benefits are definately apparent:
1. No risk of fuel falling out of suspension (puddling)
2. No strain/demand on fuel system.
3. High resistance to detonation (~140 octane)
4. Low cost and high availibility of Propane.
The drawbacks:
1. Two high pressure cylinders in vehicle (one of which IS flamable)
2. Premature O2 sensor failure.
3. Tuning perameters are not well defined.
Seems like a interesting venture for someone to take on but I'm not sure what the real market instrest in the package would be.
BTW- I know a few of the NOS R&D guys are playing with propane as we speak...NOS is headquarterd about 20 mins from here. They still do a lot of dabbling outside of Holley's intrest.
Richard
Re: propane\nitrous? not to question your post, but is propane really 140 octane?
I've posted on this subject a while ago, and was told it is from 104-110 octane.
also, why will it kill O2's quick? just wondering.
Ryan.
I've posted on this subject a while ago, and was told it is from 104-110 octane.
also, why will it kill O2's quick? just wondering.
Ryan.
Re: propane\nitrous? The 140 Octane was information I was given the company which makes the Viper systems in Florida, I was also told by some of the staff at NOS that the octane was more near 120. Unfortunately, I have not had either claim substantiated nor tested...this is the speculation which clouds this whole propane issue.
If you have seen the deposits left on an O2 sensor from a vehicle using propane you can see the heavy residual deposits left behind. It is compareable to the "bright red/orange" deposits left in combustion chambers freom a vehicle using high concentrations of octane booster or injector cleaner. While the O2 sensors don't necessarily fail the become "lazy" much sooner. These same red/orange depost accumulate around the sensor element as in the combustion chamber.
If you have seen the deposits left on an O2 sensor from a vehicle using propane you can see the heavy residual deposits left behind. It is compareable to the "bright red/orange" deposits left in combustion chambers freom a vehicle using high concentrations of octane booster or injector cleaner. While the O2 sensors don't necessarily fail the become "lazy" much sooner. These same red/orange depost accumulate around the sensor element as in the combustion chamber.
Re: propane\nitrous? Your right, there does seem to be a lot of speculation, and not enough facts on propane nitrous kits. Unfortunately, its not mainstream, so its hard to get concrete evedence.
That does make sense of the hihg octane, and making them lazy, and this would make sense to be 120+ octane. As 104 should not have this kind of effect.
this is just an old thread on this subject if anybody wants to read it.
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...hlight=propane
Ryan.
That does make sense of the hihg octane, and making them lazy, and this would make sense to be 120+ octane. As 104 should not have this kind of effect.
this is just an old thread on this subject if anybody wants to read it.
http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...hlight=propane
Ryan.
Re: propane\nitrous? ive heard the octane of propane is 104-140 so somewhere betwen there.
Now the research i have done, every one injects the propane after the MAF before the throttle body.
and some inject the nitrous after or before the MAF.
I talked to BTR and they inject the nitrous before the MAF and the propane after.
so propane after n2o before or after, depending if you want to richen it up so the incoming nitrous afects the MAF.
<small>[ November 15, 2002, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: smokinHawk ]</small>
Now the research i have done, every one injects the propane after the MAF before the throttle body.
and some inject the nitrous after or before the MAF.
I talked to BTR and they inject the nitrous before the MAF and the propane after.
so propane after n2o before or after, depending if you want to richen it up so the incoming nitrous afects the MAF.
<small>[ November 15, 2002, 05:54 AM: Message edited by: smokinHawk ]</small>
TECH Fanatic
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 1,390
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From: Chicago Land
Re: propane\nitrous? All i can say is you have to have some ***** to be racing with a propane tank in your car. But i have heard that there is huge power to be gained from it. But to me it seems like running 8s without a cage to save weight. In other words it just doesnt seem worth it. Now in a truck you could put it in back so its not near you but f bodies and vettes have hatches so its always near you. I would like to konw what these set ups are adding for horsepower and torque and even track times.
