progressive explained help
progressive explained help ok i run a .070 shot cam ls3. i was doing a 150 shot .062 with 70% and ramping in quick like a second . never had much traction problems. put the .070 and cant get a dead hook at all. ran 50% for 2 seconds then 100 after that. still had issues. 315/25/17 et street r. got some 28x11.5x16 qtp hoosiers on the way to. but all that asside how does it work. is 50% really 50%. dont feel like much diff to me vs 100% but its hard to tell by the butt dyno. can anyone explain how they really work.
Dekan, I'm running a 50% ramp for 1 second, then go to full 100%. It's worked well for me, but then again, I'm in a 6spd w/ much taller gearing I believe. I think you'll have to play with it, like maybe 30% in first, 65-75% in second and then full in third and on up. Not sure what prgressive your using, but I'm running the maximized 4 which also allows you to ramp in by speed as well.
not sure what it is but ive struggled for a while. i got a 2.56 gear stock 6l80 trans. 3200 stall which is very tight , alot tighter then 3200 i think. im using max 4 aswell. i like it pretty well. i have the launcher aswell but just wanted to try this out on this car. im hoping the hoosiers help me. but feels like 50% is hitting way harder then what a 75-100 shot should. use to on a unprepped street i never had to go lower then 50% for 2 seconds now on a track im struggling with that %. that track is not the best but still should be easier to hook. just wondering how the % deal works. is it based off the noid or the jet size..
How big are your solenoids? The % ramp is based on the SOLENOID RATING, not the jet size.
Example: if you have 300 hp solenoid and jet it down to 150, the 50% ramp is 150hp (50% of 300 hp rated solenoid) then it doesn't have room to ramp up from there as it already reached 100% of JET FLOW.
Start the ramp at a lower % to hit target hp. 75hp target / 300hp solenoid = 25% starting point.
Example: if you have 300 hp solenoid and jet it down to 150, the 50% ramp is 150hp (50% of 300 hp rated solenoid) then it doesn't have room to ramp up from there as it already reached 100% of JET FLOW.
Start the ramp at a lower % to hit target hp. 75hp target / 300hp solenoid = 25% starting point.
FormerVendor
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
How big are your solenoids? The % ramp is based on the SOLENOID RATING, not the jet size.
Example: if you have 300 hp solenoid and jet it down to 150, the 50% ramp is 150hp (50% of 300 hp rated solenoid) then it doesn't have room to ramp up from there as it already reached 100% of JET FLOW.
Start the ramp at a lower % to hit target hp. 75hp target / 300hp solenoid = 25% starting point.
Example: if you have 300 hp solenoid and jet it down to 150, the 50% ramp is 150hp (50% of 300 hp rated solenoid) then it doesn't have room to ramp up from there as it already reached 100% of JET FLOW.
Start the ramp at a lower % to hit target hp. 75hp target / 300hp solenoid = 25% starting point.
AJ, I see your point. Does it matter if the noids and jets are or aren't closely matched?
Say I was building a kit out of spare parts: 800hp capable system, 500hp noids, then jet it down to 100hp for initial tuning. Would you expect a 50% start point to let 50hp worth of nitrous through or would it be higher than 50hp? Now lets say I found some 200hp noids and hooked them up, would the same 50% starting point equal the earlier 50% start point?
(For this exercise lets leave out system efficiency and VE adjustments to compensate for 10,000 things including the earth's rotation)
Disclaimer: your opinion is very much respected and for good reason. I am not discounting your input.
Say I was building a kit out of spare parts: 800hp capable system, 500hp noids, then jet it down to 100hp for initial tuning. Would you expect a 50% start point to let 50hp worth of nitrous through or would it be higher than 50hp? Now lets say I found some 200hp noids and hooked them up, would the same 50% starting point equal the earlier 50% start point?
(For this exercise lets leave out system efficiency and VE adjustments to compensate for 10,000 things including the earth's rotation)
Disclaimer: your opinion is very much respected and for good reason. I am not discounting your input.
You have better control over progression when the solenoids orifice is closer to the jet size in my opinion. I have two stages of 100 on a nos mini. Last year I had the small solenoids on the first stage progressing off the line then dumping the second stage with the big solenoids at .7. I got the suspension worked out and set the first stage to leave on 100 then progress the second 100 in. It kept hitting the tires to hard no matter what I set the progression to for the second stage with the big solenoids. So I rewired for the big solenoids to be the first stage and leave on 100. And then progress the second 100 with the small solenoids. Guess what. I have a lot more control over the car. Much better 60 as well.
I think you hit the nail on the head above. A bigger orifice solenoid let's more nitrous in behind the jet. Then before the line can even empty the solenoid is open again.
It is also my understanding the "off the shelf" solenoids smaller in size are easier to control than the larger solenoids.
I think you hit the nail on the head above. A bigger orifice solenoid let's more nitrous in behind the jet. Then before the line can even empty the solenoid is open again.
It is also my understanding the "off the shelf" solenoids smaller in size are easier to control than the larger solenoids.
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Verdad Gallardo i run a smaller line after the noid now to. use to have a 8" or so 4 an line now i have a 8" 3an line. i think im gonna have to just delay the hit about .5 seconds to get the tires a rotation or 2 before it hits. what frequency is everyone using with these noids. i may try the rpm side of it out. i think alot reason im having trouble is i have 2 years worth of data on a .062 hit vs about 10 hits on a .070. i know one day thing going from a .062 to a 0.070 it drains a bottle about 2x as fast. i made 3 passes the other day and went to make the 4th it was drained . i mean like a lb in it. i was getting 5+ passes out of it on a .062
FormerVendor
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 440
Likes: 0
AJ, I see your point. Does it matter if the noids and jets are or aren't closely matched?
Say I was building a kit out of spare parts: 800hp capable system, 500hp noids, then jet it down to 100hp for initial tuning. Would you expect a 50% start point to let 50hp worth of nitrous through or would it be higher than 50hp? Now lets say I found some 200hp noids and hooked them up, would the same 50% starting point equal the earlier 50% start point?
(For this exercise lets leave out system efficiency and VE adjustments to compensate for 10,000 things including the earth's rotation)
Disclaimer: your opinion is very much respected and for good reason. I am not discounting your input.
Say I was building a kit out of spare parts: 800hp capable system, 500hp noids, then jet it down to 100hp for initial tuning. Would you expect a 50% start point to let 50hp worth of nitrous through or would it be higher than 50hp? Now lets say I found some 200hp noids and hooked them up, would the same 50% starting point equal the earlier 50% start point?
(For this exercise lets leave out system efficiency and VE adjustments to compensate for 10,000 things including the earth's rotation)
Disclaimer: your opinion is very much respected and for good reason. I am not discounting your input.
Plenty of good progressive info from AJ....
I have tons of data on my set up, I monitor after solenoid fuel and nitrous pressures. It is some of the most important data I look at. Tells what is happening at what percentage.
A few additional things to think about... Different solenoids react differently.... So your fuel solenoid does not react the same as your nitrous solenoid. This leads to lean spike conditions on the hit.
Also Dekan mentioned having a 0.5 second delay.... This can do very odd things with the torque converter... You'll chase your tail on things like this.... When you jetted up, it very possibly could have reduced the lean spike.... Makes more power. Try leaving at a lower percentage but don't have the ramp go much past 1.5 seconds
I have tons of data on my set up, I monitor after solenoid fuel and nitrous pressures. It is some of the most important data I look at. Tells what is happening at what percentage.
A few additional things to think about... Different solenoids react differently.... So your fuel solenoid does not react the same as your nitrous solenoid. This leads to lean spike conditions on the hit.
Also Dekan mentioned having a 0.5 second delay.... This can do very odd things with the torque converter... You'll chase your tail on things like this.... When you jetted up, it very possibly could have reduced the lean spike.... Makes more power. Try leaving at a lower percentage but don't have the ramp go much past 1.5 seconds
Plenty of good progressive info from AJ....
I have tons of data on my set up, I monitor after solenoid fuel and nitrous pressures. It is some of the most important data I look at. Tells what is happening at what percentage.
A few additional things to think about... Different solenoids react differently.... So your fuel solenoid does not react the same as your nitrous solenoid. This leads to lean spike conditions on the hit.
Also Dekan mentioned having a 0.5 second delay.... This can do very odd things with the torque converter... You'll chase your tail on things like this.... When you jetted up, it very possibly could have reduced the lean spike.... Makes more power. Try leaving at a lower percentage but don't have the ramp go much past 1.5 seconds
I have tons of data on my set up, I monitor after solenoid fuel and nitrous pressures. It is some of the most important data I look at. Tells what is happening at what percentage.
A few additional things to think about... Different solenoids react differently.... So your fuel solenoid does not react the same as your nitrous solenoid. This leads to lean spike conditions on the hit.
Also Dekan mentioned having a 0.5 second delay.... This can do very odd things with the torque converter... You'll chase your tail on things like this.... When you jetted up, it very possibly could have reduced the lean spike.... Makes more power. Try leaving at a lower percentage but don't have the ramp go much past 1.5 seconds
good advice, def been chasing my tail for sure. guess ill try a 35% for a second and then ramp to 100%over .5 with no delay. ive never did any delays till my last time out i tried .2 didnt make much of a difference.
A 70% progressive setting might as well be wide open. Do you mean you were holding the controller at 70 for 1 second then dumping to a 100? If so i bet it would have run the same number set to be wide open out the hole. You can test your solenoids with your controller and see how low a percentage they will pulse. The solenoid does not necessarily open 100 percent with each pulse. So if the solenoid orifice is 3 times the size of the jet and the solenoid plunger opens 30% it would still give you the full potential of your jet size. So even though the controller is set to 30% you are still getting all of the shot with oversized solenoids.
I am not sure what progressive you're running.... but I would do 30% to 60% in 1 second, and 60% to 100% in 0.8 as a starting point.
here is a racepak screen shot of what a lean spike looks like... the converter flashes and grabs due to lack of power from lean condition, then once the fuel catches up the converter re flashes (red line but its hard to see...)
