next nitrous breakthrough
12-15-2005, 02:08 PM
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next nitrous breakthrough What will it be? WHat could it be? We need to brainstorm to keep up with the turbo guys. 
I think maybe an injector type of deal like a diesel injector that can handle nitrous pressure. Then you could have a computer control it and it would be Sequential nitrous injection with fuel added via the PCM and very large fuel injectors? That would be expensive though. But if you could find an injector to do it....the BS3 may be able to control it via its staged sequential fuel injection for 16 injectors. Youd have almost pure liquid nitrous right into the cylinder.
The new chemical nitrous makup sounds promising as well.
I think maybe an injector type of deal like a diesel injector that can handle nitrous pressure. Then you could have a computer control it and it would be Sequential nitrous injection with fuel added via the PCM and very large fuel injectors? That would be expensive though. But if you could find an injector to do it....the BS3 may be able to control it via its staged sequential fuel injection for 16 injectors. Youd have almost pure liquid nitrous right into the cylinder.
The new chemical nitrous makup sounds promising as well.
12-15-2005, 02:33 PM
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Al, the new nitrous chemical that being discussed in the other thread would change just about everything in the nitrous industry if it is infact being used. The Pro Mod in question is currently beating the blower cars by so much that the blower guys are now bitching about needing to be allowed to run more boost or to add weight to this one particular nitrous car.
Here's another thing to think about, but would be very expensive and not likely to be seen on anything other than an all out racecar. Picture this, running an engine on nitrous and fuel alone with out any ambient air being allowed into the motor. It would have to use a sealed intake with electronically controlled meteoring valves to inject the nitrous and fuel and to keep a correct ratio. This would make a lot of power since the only "air" in the motor would be the pure oxygen from the nitrous. Also, with the intake being sealed you could possibly create boost for even more power. You might be able to use a throttle body of some kind to get the motor started and then shut it and seal the intake off once it's idling.
I know this idea sounds way out beyond left field, but I honestly think with enough R&D and thought put into it that this could be done and make unreal power somewhat reliably.
Ok, let all the crackhead jokes fly, haha.
Here's another thing to think about, but would be very expensive and not likely to be seen on anything other than an all out racecar. Picture this, running an engine on nitrous and fuel alone with out any ambient air being allowed into the motor. It would have to use a sealed intake with electronically controlled meteoring valves to inject the nitrous and fuel and to keep a correct ratio. This would make a lot of power since the only "air" in the motor would be the pure oxygen from the nitrous. Also, with the intake being sealed you could possibly create boost for even more power. You might be able to use a throttle body of some kind to get the motor started and then shut it and seal the intake off once it's idling.
I know this idea sounds way out beyond left field, but I honestly think with enough R&D and thought put into it that this could be done and make unreal power somewhat reliably.
Ok, let all the crackhead jokes fly, haha.
12-15-2005, 02:38 PM
#7
Originally Posted by SDC
What do you think about the 'pulsoid' solenoids from Wizards of NOS? Supposed to redefine progressive nitrous.
Al, aren't the Pro mod guys doing something like this already, with the direct port dry system and aftermarket computer boxes? something like the the NOSzle system but controlled by a pcm would be trick for sure.
Robert
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12-15-2005, 02:47 PM
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Robert...they might be. I dont know. You could really do that with 8 noids i guess.
Ricky...that idea is not that far fetched IMO. You could use a spring loaded trap door for idleing. And at WOT the manifold would begin to pressurize closing and sealing thr trap door. Could imagine 25 psi of nitorus and fuel!!!!! Hahaha.
Ricky...that idea is not that far fetched IMO. You could use a spring loaded trap door for idleing. And at WOT the manifold would begin to pressurize closing and sealing thr trap door. Could imagine 25 psi of nitorus and fuel!!!!! Hahaha.
12-15-2005, 02:55 PM
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Come on Al, don't call me Ricky...haha. Actually Ricky and I were discussing this intake idea the other day. He was thinking that you could use servo motors to control slide needle valves for fuel and nitrous. Scripting the program to control it would be outrageous though (we started going through what all would be needed for the software).
Robert, Pat Musi I beleive uses something similar to what you are talking about. The last intake I saw of his had two injectors per cylinder and three dry nozzles per cylinder. It was a mess to say the least, but it was working for him in the new Firebird. Then again he runs Pro Street type classes mostly. Don't know if something similar is being used in Pro Mod or not. Maybe N2OGMC can tell us for sure, but I believe Shannon Jenkins and his teammate use wet systems on their cars, which by the way they finished 1st. and 2nd. this year in the points.
Robert, Pat Musi I beleive uses something similar to what you are talking about. The last intake I saw of his had two injectors per cylinder and three dry nozzles per cylinder. It was a mess to say the least, but it was working for him in the new Firebird. Then again he runs Pro Street type classes mostly. Don't know if something similar is being used in Pro Mod or not. Maybe N2OGMC can tell us for sure, but I believe Shannon Jenkins and his teammate use wet systems on their cars, which by the way they finished 1st. and 2nd. this year in the points.
12-15-2005, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by NXJeremy
Here's another thing to think about, but would be very expensive and not likely to be seen on anything other than an all out racecar. Picture this, running an engine on nitrous and fuel alone with out any ambient air being allowed into the motor.
A guy was running a 150-shot on a tuned-port vette and used a toggle (not momentary) switch for activation.
At the end of a run he would accidently let off the gas pedal before flipping the toggle to off, and his car would actually accelerate harder with just the nitrous system feeding the engine.
When a tuned port goes closed throttle I know that the fuel is cut by DFCO, and the spark advance goes up significantly, so that definately has something to do with the results.
I didn't do this, so hold off on the "stupid" and "wrong" comments. I'm just reporting what I saw. I am still in contact with the guy, so he's not mythical or anything.
In a way I'm not that surprised at the result, nor surprised that it was discovered by accident before anyone thought it up.
12-15-2005, 04:16 PM
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Ok this is my take on this.. to make the car completely self feeding on nitrous. Useing a slide or needle valve, or even an electonic injector like having 8 nitrous and 8 fuel noids set up like a direct port..
Link all of this to a computer just like fuel injector system with a twist.. Just no butter fly or throttle body still needs a tps. Use one bottle to idle and off idle and the other would be for wide open hauling ***..
The hard part is the controll and getting it started without and backfires, this is the hard part as I see, the engine has to be running to get things moving.. With that said, this would only be application specific for a car that has maxed out the current set up and is only really seeable or workable in a pure race car.. No matter the size of the engine it can only bring in X amount of air. The amount of nitrous the engine can use is strictly dictated by the C.I. a 350 inch engine is only going to draw 350 C.I. of air in a perfect world.. This is also why the engine can handle more juice in the really high rpms, its moving the air faster, and has the velocity to keep it rolling but is still 350 c.i. of air. All of this is just a brain storm and the number could vary from the realy world..
I can see 2 drivers and 16 noids and a hole bunch of MATH.
You could easily pressurize this system with alot of pressure. again more controls.. But lots of horsepower more than the car can make with air and nitrous. Classes would outlaw it in a hart beat though..
Ricky
Link all of this to a computer just like fuel injector system with a twist.. Just no butter fly or throttle body still needs a tps. Use one bottle to idle and off idle and the other would be for wide open hauling ***..
The hard part is the controll and getting it started without and backfires, this is the hard part as I see, the engine has to be running to get things moving.. With that said, this would only be application specific for a car that has maxed out the current set up and is only really seeable or workable in a pure race car.. No matter the size of the engine it can only bring in X amount of air. The amount of nitrous the engine can use is strictly dictated by the C.I. a 350 inch engine is only going to draw 350 C.I. of air in a perfect world.. This is also why the engine can handle more juice in the really high rpms, its moving the air faster, and has the velocity to keep it rolling but is still 350 c.i. of air. All of this is just a brain storm and the number could vary from the realy world..
I can see 2 drivers and 16 noids and a hole bunch of MATH.
You could easily pressurize this system with alot of pressure. again more controls.. But lots of horsepower more than the car can make with air and nitrous. Classes would outlaw it in a hart beat though..
Ricky
12-15-2005, 04:43 PM
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The funny thing is that we've all been thinking about a way to make a sealed intake, when really there is no need for an intake in this situation. You could use just 8 individual runners that are sealed and have bungs for the fuel and nitrous nozzles. That would look pretty crazy.
12-15-2005, 05:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NXRICKY
throttle responce would also be just nuts.
Ricky
Ricky
And bottle size! Anyone calculated the volume of N2O required to completely run an engine down the track at say 7000 rpm? This thing really would add a new meaning to the term "dollar per horsepower".... 
12-15-2005, 05:29 PM
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1 15lb bottle can make 800hp for 10seconds, so you need 2 bottles.. Now here is another thing, what would the air fuel be in this combination... hmmmm
Ricky
Ricky
