Curious why no one other than wizards of nos has made a noid just for progressive use sence there are many P controllers out there? Even more suprising is that nos noids are said to be not good for it and they have a progressive controller.

 

It's funny, I believe the wizards of nos "Pulsoids" were out long before their progressive controller. I think you don't see any specific solenoids because the current solenoids handle the job. I've come across more fuel solenoids swelling then solenoids failing because they were used with a progressive controller.

Matt

 

Yeah...I wouldnt think an aluminum seat would last long at all.


Can you explain your test criteria? You would have to have a very accurate setup to read the inlet and outlet temps and compare delta. Then do that for both types of noid materials. Even a VERY small temp increase of tenths of a degree in the nitrous flow between the different noids may indicate large increases in internal temps. If for instance the nitrous temp on a SS bodied noid where .5 dgrees higher as measured in the nitrous flow path over an aluminum...I would expect that the internal temps of the noid would be incredibly higher than that .5 degrees to tranfer that .5 degree increase over the very short period the nitrous came in contact with it.
Kind of like putting a candle under a running water hose. You wont have hardly any measurable effect on the temp of the water coming out of the end of the hose...but the local temp of the hose right above that candle would be significantly higher.

If you have access to the test data I would be very curious to see what the temps are at the noid...before and after. I have always been curious the amount of temp drops in the lines as the noid opens and nitrous begines to flow. Even on non pulsed noids.




yeah..I can definately see that.

I do believe that to be the most important thing. Catch things before they happen with routine inspection. Thats the train of thought in the aircraft industry and the basis for hourly inspections.

Now dont get me wrong here...I dont believe there are any problems with pulsing the noids on the latest designs wether they are aluminum or stainless. And I have done so and havent had a failure yet (knock wood).

The question was what would be the BEST noid to pulse. In my OPINION without doing back to back testing I would give an edge to an aluminum bodied noid like the NX lighting or the Pusloid from Wizards of NOS even though it may be by the tiniest of margins.


And this is not a pissing contest...lol. This is more like splitting hairs on tech discussion.

 

Most of the true N20 wizards (Gene Fulton, Jeff Prock, Brandon Switzer, Shannon Jenkins, Mike Thermos, Wady Hamam, and the like) work with race-cars, which means multiple stages of nitrous, not progressive controllers. Although I can say that Dave Koehler just did some work with the air-noids and those might work well with progressive controllers.

There are a lot of good companies out there now though like NX, TNT, and NOS that make a good quality product for the street consumer too. They will take some of the tough abuse brought by progressive controllers.

 

So i guess it would be fair to say when running a test of three diff noids say CF ,NX, NOS
On a progressive controller setup over a long period of time the failer rate would be almost equel between the three companys give or take a couple failers.

 

The only problem with that is you have to find somebody willing to let you test the kit until it stops working and blows their **** up.

 

I was just hypotheticly speaking I would never have the time to do this test.But theres an idea for someone to start a test. Would be a big boost for the Co. That would come out on top.

 

NX has been doing it for a while with the FJO pieces. I don't hear horror stories. My mechanic uses NOS on his SC Cobra and suggested I stick with NX. They have a reputation for working well...i don't care why...just that they do.
- Macon

 

I wish someone would do a test...

Take all the noids you can find and hook them up to a progressive controller. Run them all at the same time untill they all finally fail.

Let us know what happens.

 

The pulsoid is engineered for the little 4-banger crapholeo cars of Europe. The HP capacity of these noids fall's far short of the needs of the big HP American Muscle Car shots we do. They may be on to something, but the bashing they do of American nitrous companys, I won't give them the benifit of ever being used on any of my stuff, even if they had an apropriate product. I'll stick with American companys, such as, Cold Fusion, NX, TNT and NOS to mention a few.
Robert

 

I agree. You will never hear me recomend them.

 

It wouldnt be a hard test just do it in a shop you wouldnt need a car, have a big tank of somthing cheaper than nitrous to simulate like co2.The noids may burnup faster but the end resault would be the same, the fuel noids hooked up to a pump with a return line and boom there you go , and a 12v to run the controller and noids none stop.Take five of each noid the 5 that last the longest total time,What you guys think.

 

Do It!

 

I asked about a test a long time ago. Its not going to happen. Nobody wants to be the one to have the crappy noids that fail first. I'm sure the solenoid manufactureres have the test equipment needed, but you still won't see it. And if there ever was a public test like this, the best way to do it would be to buy off the shelf stuff, not have parts supplied from the manufacturers (to eliminate the "ringers"). And who would fork the cash out for this on their own dime? No one. Maybe a magazine would though.....

 

Like i said i would never have the time,im in the military.

 

So far this has been a good discussion. Lot's of good info. I agree with Al that the aluminum solenoids with carbon fiber cans have an advantage over the SS noids with steels cans. One of the tests we did with the aluminum noids was to run them on a progressive controller back to back to back etc.... with the only delay between runs being the time it took to restart the controller which was only a second or two. The only negative effect was that the coil reached a point that it wouldn't pick up the piston do to heat. However, it WAS NOT melted like you normally see when a coil is overheated in a SS noid, and once it was allowed time to cool down a little it worked perfectly again. For all practical purposes I don't think we'll have to worry about people smoking these solenoids from overheating unless they are wired wrong.

I also definately agree with Robert about the guys from across the pond. Their idea is somewhat a good one, but I don't think it would work well with the applications that we see over here in the states. Trevor is very proud of them though, as he is about all of his products and has no problem putting down the other companies in comparison, haha. Has anyone ever used a Wizards of NOS system.

I don't think that there have been solenoids built specifically for progressive use because many of the one's on the market now work great. And while it is true that many of the big names in nitrous racing (Fulton, Jenkins, etc...) just use multiple stages instead of progression they make up a small percentage of the nitrous user market. With small tire racing becoming so popular progressive controllers are finding more and more popularity, not to mention some of the progressive controllers today allow you the ability to make power similar to a turbo car (which turbos seem to be leading the pack in many classes/orginizations). I think it will only be a matter of time before the big guns like Jenkins, Musi, Fulton, Kirk Jr., etc will come out of the past and begin using the great technology that is availible to them. Don't get me wrong, Jenkins is the fastest so he really has no need to mess with success, but I think he could go faster by using some of the progressive technology that is out there.

 

Can you tell us over how much time did it take for the coils to start to over heat to the point that it could not pick up the piston? And good info by the way Jeremy.

 

The fuel solenoid did it around the 4 min. area, I didn't see when the nitrous solenoid did it. Keep in mind, that was pretty much constant progressive use for 4min. straight and it didn't melt the coil. Another thing that was interesting was that when the fuel solenoid was taken apart it looked almost new, which was surprising.

On a side note, I ment to put it in my earlier post. The seats in the aluminum nitrous solenoids are pressed in and are made from steel so they will seal great in the long run. The fuel noids are machined into the aluminum base since the fuel pressures are no where near that of nitrous pressures. The aluminum seat and the softer material used in the fuel pistons combine to make a great seal, as well as work very well during progressive use.

 

solenoids are not expensive for the manufacturers to fork out, if there was someone who could be non bias to do the test, then it could be done. A magazine could run the article but 9 times out of 10, they want you to pay for the coverage. Im sure NX wouldnt have a problem doing the test, they stand behind there stuff.

 

Ok from what I know of piston on several MFG. noids is this. Right now there are 4 style of psitons out there.
First a black rubber: Work real nice for sealing, at low pressures. Works for a nice amount of time before needing to overall (replace). Down side to it, the black rubber swells over time especially if the nitrous is left on for long periods of time. It also swells do to fuel vapors.(tech sheets I have read, shows to take the noid apart and let the piston air out and let it shrink back to spec size.) Other problem in a progressive system, the slamming shut @ 1000 psi just wears it out, and can tare the material apart.

White Teflon: Seals at higher pressure, will out last the black rubber. Does nice in a progressive system. Teh telfon resists the abuse of opening and closing @1000 psi. Does not swell under any conditions. Down fall, seals poorly at low pressure.(low psi sealing does not apply to nitrous noid). Is proan to leek due to trash in the noid. FIlter is a must.

Teflon with compinsating piston. Same as white teflon except but seals at lower pressures. and handles trash or contamination better.

Yellowy material: I do not know much about this except I was told its a nylon material. Donot know about its sealing or operating condiditons.

I would feel comfortable using either of the teflon pieces, the rubber one NO way in hell. Why would anyone use a noid that the mfg. recommends not using with a progressive system/.

Now I have had a noid sent in to over haul from a progressive unit. The piston has gaulding marks up and down, looks like its has been belt sanded. the cause progressive system for 4 years same noids(aALOT OF BOTTLES). Gave him a new piston and tower and away the customer went.

Ricky