Discussion: Nitrous nozzle design and is it important?
Originally Posted by Robert56
I remember your test, and didn't reread, however, from what I remember, the skeptics were absent when NX proved to be the superior nozzle that day. 
Robert
Robert
I think it was me really that got this ball rolling about nozzles. The test Mrr23 did was not perfect...but good. And it showed one nozzle making marginally better HP than another. But all test criteria where not exact. So I dont think people dug into it much.
And I think that each manufacturer thinks thier nozzle is the best. NX, TNT, CF etc. But what are those reasons they think they are the best? Because thier nozzles make better HP? Thats a loaded question...more HP at what flow, at what AF level, with what supporting hardware?
If I remember...Ricky wanted to see the tests and did call out for some pretty strict criteria if MRR23 was able to do it. He even provided the nozzle to that independant party.The NX nozzle came out slightly ahead. But test conditions where not perfect and could have lead to the NX nozzle making that extra power. I didnt really see NX or anyone else make crazy claims concerning the test and left it at that. I thought the NX nozzle may substantially outperform the Nytrex becuse I thought it may have been possible the Nytrex was a sub par design. Obviously that wasnt the case and it worked pretty good.
Now you have to admit...when you guys posted the CF nozzle thread...there were some pretty big claims made. And it was said that you guys had all the flow sheets and information and dyno graphs to back that claim up. Obviously the test information provided was less than stellar. I think thats what really led to the scrutiny. IMO its always better to let the proof make the claims..and not the other way around.
http://www.stealthram.com/nxnytrex.htm here's the original page i did for the testing. all test parameters that were discussed between ricky and myself are written at the top. i paid for the nozzle myself. wasn't provided free of charge. this actually came about due to me not getting 150 rwhp out of .062"/.033" jetting. of which i'm still 20 rwhp shy of the mark at this point. ricky did send me some more product to test. unfortunately, i grenaded the wife's motor back on jan 21st. not due to n2o. but loss of oil pressure.
anyways, here's the cliff notes version for you guys.
test #1 = ny-trex nozzle vs nx nozzle
Run #33 - ny-trex nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 457.29 rwhp 454.86 rwtq A/F 11.0-11.5:1.
Run #34 - NX nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 465.99 rwhp 455.05 rwtq A/F 12.0:1 until 6300 rpms.
test #2 ny-trez nozzle .062"/.031" vs nx nozzle .062"/.033"
Run #34 - NX nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 465.99 rwhp 455.05 rwtq A/F 12.0:1 until 6300 rpms.
Run #35 - ny-trex nozzle with NX brand .062/.031 jets 461.50 rwhp 460.48 rwtq A/F 12.0:1 until 6300 rpms.
test #5 ny-trex nozzle vs nx nozzle with larger solenoid
Run #37 - ny-trex nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 475.04 rwhp 463.61 rwtq A/F 11.9-12.2:1.
This was with the 40040 Monster-shot nitrous solenoid. It has a .125 orifice opening.
Run #38 - NX nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 481.85 rwhp 486.51 A/F 12.7:1 until 5900 rpms.
This was with the 40040 Monster-shot nitrous solenoid. It has a .125 orifice opening.
anyways, here's the cliff notes version for you guys.
test #1 = ny-trex nozzle vs nx nozzle
Run #33 - ny-trex nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 457.29 rwhp 454.86 rwtq A/F 11.0-11.5:1.
Run #34 - NX nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 465.99 rwhp 455.05 rwtq A/F 12.0:1 until 6300 rpms.
test #2 ny-trez nozzle .062"/.031" vs nx nozzle .062"/.033"
Run #34 - NX nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 465.99 rwhp 455.05 rwtq A/F 12.0:1 until 6300 rpms.
Run #35 - ny-trex nozzle with NX brand .062/.031 jets 461.50 rwhp 460.48 rwtq A/F 12.0:1 until 6300 rpms.
test #5 ny-trex nozzle vs nx nozzle with larger solenoid
Run #37 - ny-trex nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 475.04 rwhp 463.61 rwtq A/F 11.9-12.2:1.
This was with the 40040 Monster-shot nitrous solenoid. It has a .125 orifice opening.
Run #38 - NX nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 481.85 rwhp 486.51 A/F 12.7:1 until 5900 rpms.
This was with the 40040 Monster-shot nitrous solenoid. It has a .125 orifice opening.
Originally Posted by NXJeremy
In fact, if I remember correctly (correct me if I'm wrong mrr23), the ny-trex nozzle made just as much as the nx nozzle when he switched to the larger nitrous solenoid (NX=481.xxhp and Ny-trex=480.xx).
when using the exact same jetting with the small solenoid, the nx nozzle made 8.7 rwhp more.
both gains had some to do with the .5 leaner a/f ratio. so, in test #2, i made the a/f ratio the same between the nozzles at 12.0:1 in this scenario, the nx made 4.49 rwhp more still. but, the ny-trex nozzle made 5.43 rwtq more.
Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
Now you have to admit...when you guys posted the CF nozzle thread...there were some pretty big claims made. And it was said that you guys had all the flow sheets and information and dyno graphs to back that claim up. Obviously the test information provided was less than stellar. I think thats what really led to the scrutiny. IMO its always better to let the proof make the claims..and not the other way around.
yeah...but you are an auto with a stall. You may not get your exactly 150. 
And as you said...the change you made that had the biggest measurable difference was going to a larger orifice. Same jets.
Again that points towards correct combinations (lines, noids, nozzles, fittings) to achieve max flow rates for a given jet size. And depending on which item in a given setup is MOST deficient...changing that most deficient item out will have the biggest net gain. In your case...so far it has been the smaller noids.
Bit it COULD even be a nozzle if that nozzle is seriously substandard or was being run at too high a flow. Thats why on a 200 or a 250+ shot on a single nozzle...i would not be surpised to begin to see differences in power. Its possible certain nozzles could begin to see issues at very high levels. We rearely run single nozzles that high.
And as you said...the change you made that had the biggest measurable difference was going to a larger orifice. Same jets.
Again that points towards correct combinations (lines, noids, nozzles, fittings) to achieve max flow rates for a given jet size. And depending on which item in a given setup is MOST deficient...changing that most deficient item out will have the biggest net gain. In your case...so far it has been the smaller noids.
Bit it COULD even be a nozzle if that nozzle is seriously substandard or was being run at too high a flow. Thats why on a 200 or a 250+ shot on a single nozzle...i would not be surpised to begin to see differences in power. Its possible certain nozzles could begin to see issues at very high levels. We rearely run single nozzles that high.
yeah, but i want to get as close to it as possible. just like ricky said in the original thread, i should get damn near to it. i still have to try the NX noid, bottle valve, and two piece bottle nut.
IMO, if you are trying to run 300 rwhp n2o, you should be on direct port. or two stages of single nozzle.
i still want to see if the NX MAF kit will produce more over the shark nozzle. but that's a hefty price for me to try out.
IMO, if you are trying to run 300 rwhp n2o, you should be on direct port. or two stages of single nozzle.
i still want to see if the NX MAF kit will produce more over the shark nozzle. but that's a hefty price for me to try out.
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Verdad Gallardo i've already taken my newfound info and applied it to my car. i put a ny-trex monster solenoid on my car. as well as, added a second stage. haven't tried it out yet due to other complications. but, i will soon!!! most likely start off with a 50 rwhp right off the bat. then flip the 150+ rwhp as soon as i can. from now on, i'll talk rwhp numbers. people look at me wierd when i say 200 shot. (compucar says the jets are 200 motor). i'm still gunning for 10s on completely stock 00 LS1 motor. stock motor is defined as from TB to factory exhaust manifolds and cats.
this pic was before i put the larger solenoid on the passenger side system.
this pic was before i put the larger solenoid on the passenger side system.
ah, i'm skeptical myself. 11.66 with the 4.10 gears, nitto DRs and 200 (motor rated) single stage. i now have ET streets and 3.73 gears with this newfound power setup. my car is slow for what it has. for some reason, i just can't 60ft like most others. or do a 12 second NA. i see others doing 12.5s with a converter and ET streets. not me. i'm still at 13.1x go figure.
Originally Posted by NXJeremy
Robert, there were no skeptics in that thread because he provided all of the a/f information for the dyno pulls. In his testing the NX nozzle showed to run a little leaner which would account for the gain in a little hp. In fact, if I remember correctly (correct me if I'm wrong mrr23), the ny-trex nozzle made just as much as the nx nozzle when he switched to the larger nitrous solenoid (NX=481.xxhp and Ny-trex=480.xx).
Robert
maybe they don't want to take a shot at the title thus created from my little episode. you even mentioned in my original post that the other companies should step up. no one else has approached me so far. so, we have a benchmark the others want to take, but are afraid they might not accomplish. and this would, per say, 'rank' products. in turn, this would potentially, take customers away from them.
this is why you won't see like companies compete with each other on the same exact field. for example, now that we've seen the nx nozzle best the nx nozzle by 4.49 rwhp given the same a/f ratio, which would you buy?
this is why you won't see like companies compete with each other on the same exact field. for example, now that we've seen the nx nozzle best the nx nozzle by 4.49 rwhp given the same a/f ratio, which would you buy?
Originally Posted by Robert56
My opinion is, there were no skeptics because no one was challenging NX and it came out on top. I really see not much from any other camp, concerned with the out come of this test, can you explain that?
Robert
Robert
mrr23, here's the other nozzle test thread. I ttt it for ya. by the way, I am still going for the deep 10.xx's with an absolutly bone stock long block, and also all the way the tail pipes. Added a 3rd stage and will progresively go towards 300rwhp shot. hehehehe hope I don't go to far, as I want a stock 10'er that will last.
Robert
Robert
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Originally Posted by Robert56
My opinion is, there were no skeptics because no one was challenging NX and it came out on top. I really see not much from any other camp, concerned with the out come of this test, can you explain that?
Robert
Robert
The reason and the only reason there were skeptics and nea sayers in the nitrous direct thread was lack of data. INcomplete slow to get poor data thats all. You make a claim and you should be able to back it up NOW. Especially if future customers are looking to buy something. Once CF retests the nozzle again and shows data I am sure there will still be some that disagree, my self tests are just that tests, nothing more nothing less.
Ricky
Originally Posted by NXRICKY
Wrong, no skeptics because the test was solid and he had data, and real complete data to back it up. Win loose draw, does not matter the test was solid and showed just a piece of a puzzle. Now take another piece and another peice and another piece it all adds up.
The reason and the only reason there were skeptics and nea sayers in the nitrous direct thread was lack of data. INcomplete slow to get poor data thats all. You make a claim and you should be able to back it up NOW. Especially if future customers are looking to buy something. Once CF retests the nozzle again and shows data I am sure there will still be some that disagree, my self tests are just that tests, nothing more nothing less.
Ricky
The reason and the only reason there were skeptics and nea sayers in the nitrous direct thread was lack of data. INcomplete slow to get poor data thats all. You make a claim and you should be able to back it up NOW. Especially if future customers are looking to buy something. Once CF retests the nozzle again and shows data I am sure there will still be some that disagree, my self tests are just that tests, nothing more nothing less.
Ricky
Robert
