Discussion: Nitrous nozzle design and is it important?
Thats what I was thinking, I was just curious as to how we know all these nozzles are so close and then to see numbers assicated with atomization I was thoroughly confuzzed. I will be testing it on my car against my shark mainly out of curiousity. How would you guys suggest a "average joe" go about doing this test. My thoughts were start with a full bottle and use the heater to get the pressure about 1000lbs. I will be jetted at 150 and make a pass with the shark, switch nozzles and reheat, make a pass with the predator, switch to the shark, rehaet and make a pass. Then refill the bottle and do 2 predator and one shark pass and then compare split times, mph and such. This was just my little test, anything you guys would like to see in particular?? I was also planning on comparing my far back plugs to the front pair and seeing if there is a noticable differnce for me.
FormerVendor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 864
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From: Wichita Falls,Tx
Sounds like your going to be having alot of fun at the track, and be very busy. Really though, what you are going to do sounds similar to the tests done by CF except you going to be on the track instead of the dyno. There are a large number of variables that could change from run to run with or without you knowing, which would make things not very accurate. Regardless though, it would be interesting (to me anyway). I look forward to seeing your results.
Ok should be about a month or so till I get back and get things in order, I guess I will just prove rather or not if the average nitrous idiot has any better luck with this as compared to my other nozzle.
Yes I was just talking in theory. Because I believe there will be a point of diminishing returns as far as atomization goes.
As far as your testing at that track. I think if you just try to keep the runs as matched as possible and keep the same bottle pressure, start point and launch rpms etc...youll just have to log a BUNCH of runs to get a broad sample of each. if there is a difference a pattern should emerge eventually. If you cant distinguish a pattern...well....there is no differnce. Atleast none thats practicle. Be sure to toss out any runs that are anomolies. I would try to make atleast 10 runs of each. The larger the sample the more accurate the pattern and the easier the trend will be to spot.
Now....if one nozzle or the other say runs.... 1/2 second and 1 mph better. What does that tell you? Not a whole lot except that one probably flows a bit more juice IMO. And the same thing could have been achieved with a jet change.
I just dont see what the slight differences like that mean when your operating in a mid range setup.
One other thing. Another area that a nozzle COULD potentially prove superior over another would be when trying to extract the most HP on pump gas or limited octane fuel. Now that would be a test that would be cool to do and would have serious implications if there where major differences.
But test it out and see what happens. be sure to let us know.
As far as your testing at that track. I think if you just try to keep the runs as matched as possible and keep the same bottle pressure, start point and launch rpms etc...youll just have to log a BUNCH of runs to get a broad sample of each. if there is a difference a pattern should emerge eventually. If you cant distinguish a pattern...well....there is no differnce. Atleast none thats practicle. Be sure to toss out any runs that are anomolies. I would try to make atleast 10 runs of each. The larger the sample the more accurate the pattern and the easier the trend will be to spot.
Now....if one nozzle or the other say runs.... 1/2 second and 1 mph better. What does that tell you? Not a whole lot except that one probably flows a bit more juice IMO. And the same thing could have been achieved with a jet change.
I just dont see what the slight differences like that mean when your operating in a mid range setup.
One other thing. Another area that a nozzle COULD potentially prove superior over another would be when trying to extract the most HP on pump gas or limited octane fuel. Now that would be a test that would be cool to do and would have serious implications if there where major differences.
But test it out and see what happens. be sure to let us know.
i thought i did this exact test just last month? https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ghlight=nozzle
383LQ4SS - you even posted in it.
am i missing something with this thread?
383LQ4SS - you even posted in it.
am i missing something with this thread?
Last edited by mrr23; Feb 23, 2006 at 07:02 PM.
yes....and it was a good test IMO. And if you read my reply I basically said the same thing I said here. I think my direct quote was something like "all GOOD nozzles will be within 2-3% with similair flows".
ok, just making sure. i was kinda scratching my head about this thread. thinking deja vu. being within 3 rwhp to me makes it about the same. the one thing noticed was how the nx nozzle made it go leaner vs the ny-trex nozzle.
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Verdad Gallardo i wanted to expand the testing by going into MAF kits and see how that compares to single nozzles. unfortunately, me grenading the wife's motor on bradenton's track has slowed the testing down some. once her's is back up, i'll be redoing the tests on my car, then go from there.
Originally Posted by Ben R
For street-car stuff that won't ever see over 150HP, nozzle design doesn't matter. Tony is absolutely right there.
it leaned out .5 to 1 full point leaner. i can only imagine what would happen if the car was already at 13:1 ratio before i swapped to the nx nozzle.
Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
Someday someone should prove the claim that they have the best nozzle and it will make more power than the next guys. I have seen ZERO evidence of this yet.
Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
because you can simply change jets and do the same thing.
If you are trying to go faster why dont you just currently spray more right now with a jet change? Do you think if the new nozzle makes more power that that power is "free power" as far as you motor is concerned?
If you are trying to go faster why dont you just currently spray more right now with a jet change? Do you think if the new nozzle makes more power that that power is "free power" as far as you motor is concerned?
nx nozzle .093" openings
ny-trex .110" openings
doubt anyone would ever see the limit of the openings of either nozzle in a 200 hp and lower level. using the 80% nitrous jet to nozzle opening theory, you would need a jet size of about .137" to get that close using the .110" opening of the ny-trex nozzle.
Originally Posted by mrr23
you really can't say that as you read my testing where nx made more than the ny-trex at the same .062/.033 jetting.
your gonna have to reread some of the stuff a lil closer to get the points made.
No one doubted that just changing nozzles will change power levels due to different flow characteristics or due to making the tune up (AF ratio) different.
Claims where made concerning more power with the exact same nitrous flow rate and tune up. Keep in mind that the same jet size does not mean same nitrous flow rate.
We were talking about testing in a manner that would keep the tune the same and the flow rate exactly that same to test stricly nozzle design to see if one made more power than the next.
did my testing indicate a flow rate change? i weighed the bottles before and after. the only thing that couldn't be accounted for is the amount used on the purge.
Originally Posted by mrr23 nitrous test page
Run #33 - ny-trex nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 457.29 rwhp 454.86 rwtq A/F 11.0-11.5:1.
Run #34 - NX nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 465.99 rwhp 455.05 rwtq A/F 12.0:1 until 6300 rpms.
Thought here is some of the gain could be attributed to the .5+ higher A/F ratio. So, decided to rule that out.
Nitrous usage per run. This includes purging.
NX = bottle weight BEFORE 25lbs 9.00 ounces AFTER 24lbs 15.25 ounces
ny-trex = bottle weight BEFORE 25lbs 8.50 ounces AFTER 24lbs 14.25 ounces
most likely the 1 ounce difference could be in the purging.
Run #34 - NX nozzle with NX brand .062/.033 jets 465.99 rwhp 455.05 rwtq A/F 12.0:1 until 6300 rpms.
Thought here is some of the gain could be attributed to the .5+ higher A/F ratio. So, decided to rule that out.
Nitrous usage per run. This includes purging.
NX = bottle weight BEFORE 25lbs 9.00 ounces AFTER 24lbs 15.25 ounces
ny-trex = bottle weight BEFORE 25lbs 8.50 ounces AFTER 24lbs 14.25 ounces
most likely the 1 ounce difference could be in the purging.
its tough to say. 1/2 ounce difference when your only using ~9 ounces in a pull could amount to a gain that could be easily seen. That about 5% of your total flow during the run.
Thats why I really think to show a trend one way or another your either gonna have to really sweat the details...or do enough pulls to show a real trend.
I do think your test was the best and most accurate I have seen yet. And to me the results showed that its tough to PROVE anything substantial when the margins are so small and the variables so many and tough to measure.
Thats why I really think to show a trend one way or another your either gonna have to really sweat the details...or do enough pulls to show a real trend.
I do think your test was the best and most accurate I have seen yet. And to me the results showed that its tough to PROVE anything substantial when the margins are so small and the variables so many and tough to measure.
on another thread we were talking about the best way to test. I think the concensus was an engine dyno with a brake so you could maintain a set rpm...say 4500 rpm. Then spray for exactly 10 seconds using a very accurate timer. Maintain all parameters like bottle psi, weather,etc as close as possible. The avg the HP...or TQ for that matter over the 10 sec time period.
Then after the dynos. Flow each setup using the timer for the same 10 seconds and record flow #s. You could then either extrpolate the HP with the flow rates and compare...or rejet so flow rates are exact...and redyo.
But either way it would be a seious undertaking. Youre tests were pretty good and You were just some guy that headed to a dyno. I bet you spent some time doing that test and a little cash too. So to do a very very accurate test would be an effort. More than I could do really. It would take someone with deep pockets...like Ricky...lol.
Then after the dynos. Flow each setup using the timer for the same 10 seconds and record flow #s. You could then either extrpolate the HP with the flow rates and compare...or rejet so flow rates are exact...and redyo.
But either way it would be a seious undertaking. Youre tests were pretty good and You were just some guy that headed to a dyno. I bet you spent some time doing that test and a little cash too. So to do a very very accurate test would be an effort. More than I could do really. It would take someone with deep pockets...like Ricky...lol.
ah, time yes. i have a good connection on the dyno. do some horse trading. i was there about 2 hours. the way you are wanting it done is definately a large undertaking.
i can only imagine the stress trying to keep the 4500 rpms for 10 seconds. and thanks for the compliment.
i can only imagine the stress trying to keep the 4500 rpms for 10 seconds. and thanks for the compliment.
Originally Posted by mrr23
ah, time yes. i have a good connection on the dyno. do some horse trading. i was there about 2 hours. the way you are wanting it done is definately a large undertaking.
i can only imagine the stress trying to keep the 4500 rpms for 10 seconds. and thanks for the compliment.
i can only imagine the stress trying to keep the 4500 rpms for 10 seconds. and thanks for the compliment.
Robert
FormerVendor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 864
Likes: 0
From: Wichita Falls,Tx
Robert, there were no skeptics in that thread because he provided all of the a/f information for the dyno pulls. In his testing the NX nozzle showed to run a little leaner which would account for the gain in a little hp. In fact, if I remember correctly (correct me if I'm wrong mrr23), the ny-trex nozzle made just as much as the nx nozzle when he switched to the larger nitrous solenoid (NX=481.xxhp and Ny-trex=480.xx).