Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Here are a couple videos comparing bog launches on the hose. Now I know some will say, hey I bogged on my wet kit and it didn't blow the intake. That's fine, I don't think it will happen everytime, but does sometimes. if you have a wet successful bog launch video, I invite you to post it up. I would just like to have a general tech talk concerning the two style kits. The yellow Z06 you guys have prob seen, however, this is the lastest version from the owner and towards the end they state it had a working and pro installed ws, so that argument dosen't hold up? what do you think happened and why, and what to prevent this in the future, for us that will be, or who are running wet kits on the lsx platform. Now the other video is of a famous handsome man from the NW, and succeded in bogging his dry hit launch, with no ill effects. Comments are welcomed on either video, good, bad or ugly.

EDIT: See post #26 for the real dry bog launch video, as I posted the wrong one here, sorry.
Dry Hit Bog Launch Video (Z06)
Wet Hit Bog Launch Video (Z06)
Robert

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

I wouldnt be surprised if the bog made him pedal it twice on accident. You see the car jerk twice real bad almost like he was on/off the throttle real quick. Thats about the only thing i can think of for the yellow one. Robert your bog wasnt nearly as bad as his. Your run actually looked pretty good by comparison..lol.

Dragframe

iTrader: (14)

God everytime i see that video i cringe.. this is the stuff that scares me abotu nitrous.... or at least the wet kit.

so 383LQ... you tihnk he bogged it (ran super rich) got off and jumped back on causing the extra fuel inside the intake to ignite?

BrianC98Z28

iTrader: (11)

robert what was your 60ft on that run? also whats with the rear fender?

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

no way to be sure...but it may be a possibilty. If you have ever screwed up a launch so bad with semi sticky tires that your foot came off due to the acceleration....but then bog and your foot goes right back into the pedal...lol. I have. Makes you look retarded. It does appear he jerks twice. But again...theres no way to be certain of that. just a guess.

BrianC98Z28

iTrader: (11)

could he have possibly left traction control on? I mean as goofy as it sounds, Ive done it in the water box before and felt like a goob! lol

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Blue tape is for easy clean up and mostly to keep rock chips at a min, and I might add it works well on both accounts. clean up about 3 minutes and looks fresh. The 60' was a crap hole 1.683, and not a real good run, as you can see my front dip on a couple shifts, however, it was only my second complete pass this season. My first was a good run, with a chirp from each gear all the way to 4th, very smooth in comparison. I'll post it after I get it on my web.
Robert

CAT3

iTrader: (9)

Brian, no way the traction control was on for that run. I need to put that clip in Movie Maker, and go thru it frame by frame at the launch to see actions of the car. Almost looks like he may have slipped his foot back off the throttle as well.

NXJeremy

Robert, your run doesn't look bad at all compared to the poor guy with the yellow zo6. Does anyone happen to know what the lower rpm limit on the window switch was? I have seen guys set them up to activate lower than the 3000rpm that most people recommend. Not saying this guy did that, or that doing so will cause a backfire, mainly just asking? It could have also been a combination of what Al and Cat3 are saying.

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

Robert the Red car launch and does not seem to BOG, 6-7 seconds in the video sound like tire squaking or spinning. Was that the red car or another beside it.

The yellow car did bog, and of corse boom.. But like AL mentioned it look almost on off on the throttle. Curious, let hypothisesssss here.
If the WS was 3k how did the BOG happen?
option 1)
Was the car stalled above 3K and the clutch dumped. If the drive is fast enough, with the gas pedal he could engaged the system while the car was starting the bog. Let me ramble for a minute here. Stalled to lets say 3k+, dumps the clutch and slams the gas open, That area of time between clutch engaging and gas going to full throttle is where the tires stuck started to bog rpm starts to fall (but still in the window) and we slam the nitrous on. BOOOMMM....

option 2)
Another thing that could have happened, car launches ( nitrous ON )and throws the driver reward off the gas pedal, (nitrous OFF), driver is thrown back forward, (nitrous ON), BOOOMMMMM. Seen this type of bang before, also seen on off on off, down track cause all kinds of bad things can happen.
The Red car did not do this type of bog, if a there was a bog, I just can not tell....
Wet systems can back fire, if the safety systems, "that are in place including the Drivers Head in the game", are not abided by.

This is also why I recommend people rolling into the throttle, slamming it open at the lauch will not yeild any better times or marginal at best. Now if you have a transbrake car the likely hood of bog goes down... Let me explain, since you are already at WOT and the nitrous is just waiting for the release of the transbrake. The release of the transbrake will engage the nitrous system giving the power that is needed not to have a bog. The nitrous is on before the car even moves. Now this does greatly increase cylinder pressure thro the roof, and can cause detentation some times. .Clutch cars would just need to do a clutch switch.

Bogs are cause by not enough power being applied at that moment in time.. Backfires are caused by the air flow in the intake not matched or better than the amount of nitrous injecting into that intake tract. Hence the bog caused the air flow to stall , and the nitrous injecting into the engine @ that point was greater than air flow and the rest is BOOOMM...

Ricky

white2001s10

iTrader: (4)

It doesn't even require stalled air flow to cause a backfire.
One overly rich cylinder can do it, and do it well.

cantdrv65

iTrader: (3)

In my opinion, the yellow Z had a leaking fuel noid....The car had ALOT of excess fuel in the intake. The size of the initial backfire and subsequent immediate fire suggest more fuel than the small shot he was running. I used to bog my TNT 150 shot off the line almost EVERYTIME I launched trying to save the 10 bolt rear... Never had a backfire...my window switch was set at 3000.

Of course after that initial fire lights up the entire fuel rail with 60 psi fuel pressure....that MF is going to burn.

Airwolf

iTrader: (2)

The video that would not die!
Thank God the dry guys have it! Every time I watch that Z I get more confused... I "KNOW" (because every person who has this is an expert on what the guy had in his car) that it was setup by a "pro", there "was" a window switch, and everything was "perfect". I say Bullshit. The bog "looked" well below 3000 rpm (the minimum I have "heard" to activate a wet shot) and if that is the case then everything was not perfect. I know there is a much larger chance for a single nozzle wet system to have this problem, but so? There is also a chance of a meteor hitting me too (or winning the lotto but that never happens - kind of like trouble with dry systems, so I keep hearing).
Face it, when you add ANY power adder, there is a risk of damage. NOTHING is 100% safe. You just do your best at what you installl and follow manufacturers advice, not try "other" settings then cry foul. I do feel extremely bad for that Z owner... That just sucks, but if (and I say IF) he took things out of spec, then....

white2001s10

iTrader: (4)

quoted from a recent post.

I wondered how long until the rationalizing commenced.
Oh well I guess I'll jump on board and say that the vette fire wasn't all that bad.
He didn't hit the gas pedal correctly so maybe he deserved the fire. It certainly couldn't be a design fault of running a wet kit.

BAKNBLK

I've been racking my brain over the dry vs. wet kits and I've come to the conclusion one isn't much safer than the other. You still need to monitor both. I've been finding more and more threads of people running lean on dry kits and having to adjust the nozzles or play with the tune. Those who support dry kits and run big dry shots play with the tune on their cars a little more than the average joe. They made the kit safer thru their tuning. Some owners might not need tuning but if you do, it doesn't really sound like a deal. Luckly I have the means but if you don't the wet kit sounds like a better way to go. Some just prefer the piece of mind knowing the extra fuel will be there with a wet kit. If you play with fire your gonna get burned eventually. Just go with what you thinks safe for your car.

I'm not bashing a dry kit but I don't consider it to be as simple as it's made out to be. I'm still considering one for my own car but only because I don't have big HP goals. A wet kit will be a little bit of a over kill for me.

NXJeremy

Wow, I'm still trying to figure out why you are so against wet systems. Did you have a bad experience with one? Or maybe you got drug by a guy running a wet system? Who knows, but the simple fact of the matter is that nitrous backfires are not a common occurance with wet systems. Do they happen? Yes. Are they usually caused by improper installation or improper use? Definately. In the 4 years that I have been associated with NX I have spent more time at race tracks and street races than most people will spend in a decade, and I have only witnessed in person 2 nitrous backfires. One was in my one car (I was younger and dumb, no window switch or anything, just a wot switch and hammering it out of the hole, lol), and the other one was a pro-mod. I have seen guys do some really retarted tuning with wet systems and bog motors and still not have any problems, which shows me that they are a chance occurance.

I don't think dry systems are any safer when used improperly, which let's face it, 95%+ problems with nitrous systems (dry and wet) are caused by either incorrect installation or user error. Dry systems can cause just as much damage as a wet system. The only reason that people tend to look at wet system backfires in shock is because the really bad ones tend to continue to spray fuel from the solenoid onto the fire, which makes them appear to be hellacious. However, if a dry system is used improperly or tuned wrong you can cause some serious internal damage.

We all know that backfires are more likely to happen with a wet system than with a dry system. That's just a risk that some are willing to take and others are not. Choose which ever you like, get in the other lane, and hope it's enough. Both systems have a place in this industry/hobby/sport and both are good at what they do, but to say that one is safer than the other is based on relavence and is not true.

Hennytime

iTrader: (33)

gotta love the auto

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

The margin of safety is excellent for both when done properly.

I have installed and run and been around nitrous for some time now...and I have found nitrous backfires a veryrare occurance

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

Agreed, but damm does it get everyones attention when it does happen. The long and short of it is, nothing more than an air fuel bomb that found a flame, booommm, then raw fuel from the fuel rail adds to the mess...

Ricky

white2001s10

iTrader: (4)

I appreciate your sense of humor. I guess there will always be two sides to every coin.
I would continue your line of questioning in this way.
Does improper use happen to the best of nitrous users due not just to ignorance, but to a flat out accidental occurance? I say yes.
Things just happen sometimes. A solenoid leaks, a plug fails, a valve sticks... you cannot control that stuff by spending more on the install.
No one is immune to accidents like that. Dry users have them too. The big difference is the outcome with the dry system.
Any N2O system can damage an engine and break driveline parts, but the dry tends not to take intake manifolds apart and burn the car to the ground. I think everyone knows these facts.
Dry is VERY forgiving. Having perfect distribution of fuel allows a huge area to play around in without problems.
I have run a dry system for 660 ft at 14:1 AFR with no damage whatsoever. It was an accident, but did no harm even to the spark plugs.
I've also run a dry system down to high 9:1 AFR with no problems at all.
I've seen dry systems run up into the factory rev-limiter in every gear without a single problem.

I'd have to say for a wet system, it requires a much narrower window for even semi-safe operation. This just means you can get by with fewer mistakes. The mistakes don't discriminate against ignorance more than accident.

Many people wonder and ask which type is safer. I feel that I'm giving them the best answer, just as you feel you are.
I don't feel that telling them that all mistakes are caused by improper use is a valid argument that brings the safety factor of a wet system up to that of the dry. Obviously something is wrong when there is a backfire. It cannot always be attributed to the install or how the user drove the car.
I can see where you're coming from, but my opinion isn't changed.
I think that people would like having more breathing room to make a few mistakes without torching the car.

I have used both wet and dry systems over the years and will probably continue to use both. The danger is always there, and I don't neccessarily always choose the safest way to go. I have had a few backfires, but never with a dry system, and I've never damaged an intake manifold (they were aluminum). Once in a moment of inexperience many years ago, I put my head directly over a carburetor to try and see what was going on (running rough). I was modulating the throttle and watching the fuel ( a common trailer-park troubleshooting technique I'd seen before). The engine had never backfired before, but picked that very minute to do so sending a fireball around my head for a second or so. No real harm was done to me, but interestingly guess what I saw in the manifold just before the backfire? yep, fuel puddling.
Who would've guessed that?
The problem was then traced to a small bit of rubber fuel line that lodged in the needle/seat area causing some minor flooding and subsequent fuel puddling with the over-rich condition and poor firing that liquid fuel can bring. Okay so I learned a couple of things, and was a bit embarrassed. I knew you're not supposed to get in a carburetors line of fire with the engine running, but like I said the engine had never backfired before either. I chanced against Murphys law, but I know better now.
One point of admitting to an embarrassing mistake on here is to site an example of too much liquid fuel in the manifold causing a backfire. It's not a direct cause/effect, but the resulting change in combustion can directly cause a misfire.

Doesn't one of the N2O system developers or better yet an independant tester have a dyno with a wide-band on each exhaust header tube?
Distribution errors should show up quite well with the wet systems. It would offer a solution to so much speculation.