Should i throw in a two stage for the hell of it?
Should i throw in a two stage for the hell of it? also question about LM-1 Hey guys should i throw in a second stage of nitrous for the hell of it? i have an FJO controller now and i was thinking of spraying 25 shot out of the whole and @ 2800 rpm hitting it 75shot of wet- what do yall think- or should i just run one stage progressivley?
hey i am thinking about getting an LM-1 Wideband programmer- Does this allow you to do any tunning or does it just record the a/f ratio?
hey i am thinking about getting an LM-1 Wideband programmer- Does this allow you to do any tunning or does it just record the a/f ratio?
Last edited by 02Vortech; Mar 13, 2006 at 10:05 PM.
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Well asking if you should run 2 stages is like asking if you should do 2 chicks hell yeah you should. I would not run any nitrous before 3000rpm though. The set up of how to run the 2 stages will be determined by traction and how much you want to run at the end. Maby Robert of nitrous direct can chime in hes the man to talk to about progressive controllers and multiple stage set ups.
most of the 4.3L guys spray out of the hole or around 2500rpm lol i know its not the norm but to get our RPMS up we have to- also i will only be running like 25% of a 75shot below 2800rpms through my FJO controller
i already have the FJO so all i have to do is wire it into the the harness and program for a first and second stage....
i already have the FJO so all i have to do is wire it into the the harness and program for a first and second stage....
Great analogy redorange!
I agree redorange with the doing two chicks and the 3000 and above; all of the kits I researched state use only above 3000 RPM. Its stated for a reason. Its kinda of like all the safety rules and stuff we have to abide by here at work, someone learned the hardway (life, limb, or property damage), learn from their mistakes.
I am gonna do a two stage on my stock C-5 Dry with a smaller wet hit.
Will Post pics when done with dynosheets.
Cheers
Beer
I agree redorange with the doing two chicks and the 3000 and above; all of the kits I researched state use only above 3000 RPM. Its stated for a reason. Its kinda of like all the safety rules and stuff we have to abide by here at work, someone learned the hardway (life, limb, or property damage), learn from their mistakes.
I am gonna do a two stage on my stock C-5 Dry with a smaller wet hit.
Will Post pics when done with dynosheets.
Cheers
Beer
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 91
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From: GMT-10 Hours
Are ya sure all kits state 3000 and above? An exerpt from
Anyways I've seen/read the norm of 3k+ only; 2k+ only; and not to much of a big shot below 3k. Rule I go by is never below 2k and not to much of a big shot below 3k. I spray 100 shot @ 2600+ and just set up a fjo unit to start from 25shot@2k and ramp up to my norm 100shot at 2600. I would suggest this to all if you have the traction! 
If we can do this on a little 4.3 v6 Im sure itll be easy on the v8's!
It records/reads afr and youll need an actual software/hardware like EFILive, HPT, or Tunercat to tune.
Just ramp up to the norm! No need for a 2nd stage yet!
Originally Posted by NX Installation Instructions: Power Tuning Tips
7. Never “lug” your engine and hit the nitrous system, use the system at wide-open throttle only, nitrous should not be used below 2000 rpm’s. If you do any of the above a serious “Back Fire” could result in engine damage.
If we can do this on a little 4.3 v6 Im sure itll be easy on the v8's!
Originally Posted by 02Vortech
hey i am thinking about getting an LM-1 Wideband programmer- Does this allow you to do any tunning or does it just record the a/f ratio?
Just ramp up to the norm! No need for a 2nd stage yet!
Originally Posted by Beer99C5
Great analogy redorange!
all of the kits I researched state use only above 3000 RPM.
all of the kits I researched state use only above 3000 RPM.
Interesting NX publishes a lower RPM...anyone from NX want to comment?
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Originally Posted by frknlo
Are ya sure all kits state 3000 and above? An exerpt from
Anyways I've seen/read the norm of 3k+ only; 2k+ only; and not to much of a big shot below 3k. Rule I go by is never below 2k and not to much of a big shot below 3k. I spray 100 shot @ 2600+ and just set up a fjo unit to start from 25shot@2k and ramp up to my norm 100shot at 2600. I would suggest this to all if you have the traction! If we can do this on a little 4.3 v6 Im sure itll be easy on the v8's!
It records/reads afr and youll need an actual software/hardware like EFILive, HPT, or Tunercat to tune.
Just ramp up to the norm! No need for a 2nd stage yet!
Anyways I've seen/read the norm of 3k+ only; 2k+ only; and not to much of a big shot below 3k. Rule I go by is never below 2k and not to much of a big shot below 3k. I spray 100 shot @ 2600+ and just set up a fjo unit to start from 25shot@2k and ramp up to my norm 100shot at 2600. I would suggest this to all if you have the traction!
If we can do this on a little 4.3 v6 Im sure itll be easy on the v8's!It records/reads afr and youll need an actual software/hardware like EFILive, HPT, or Tunercat to tune.
Just ramp up to the norm! No need for a 2nd stage yet!
i will already have a laptop in the truck for programming the nitrous on the fly so a datalogger shouldnt be to hard.
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FormerVendor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 864
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From: Wichita Falls,Tx
frknlo- That exerpt is wrong. I have been bugging the hell out of the guy that does the web page to get it changed. We always recommend being at or above 3000rpm when you activate the system, but more importantly I always tell customers that they just need to avoid lugging the motor. While activating at 3000rpm in 1st gear is ok, activating at 3000rpm in 3rd or 4th (for the guys that like to do the highway runs) could cause some problems due to the load on the motor at the point of activation.
02Vortech- I personally have always been of the thinking that with the capabilities of the FJO unit there is not really any benefit to using two stages on a street car that is not spraying a whole lot. I could see where using multiple stages and a progressive controller would be beneficial in a race car application that is spraying 500hp+, but in a street car the FJO unit will allow the user all the adjustability needed to get the power to the ground while maintaining traction. Just my .02
02Vortech- I personally have always been of the thinking that with the capabilities of the FJO unit there is not really any benefit to using two stages on a street car that is not spraying a whole lot. I could see where using multiple stages and a progressive controller would be beneficial in a race car application that is spraying 500hp+, but in a street car the FJO unit will allow the user all the adjustability needed to get the power to the ground while maintaining traction. Just my .02
Originally Posted by 02Vortech
hey i am thinking about getting an LM-1 Wideband programmer- Does this allow you to do any tunning or does it just record the a/f ratio?
pill your kit to whatever max HP you want to spray and just set up a nice curve in the FJO software, simple
ya im gonna run some 103 ocatne on a 100shot for now
but once i get a MSD 6plus or the Crane Cams equivalant i will take out 2 or 3 degrees timing for 100shot on 93 octane- the bigger fuel pump+SLP stage II pcm and a 125 shot will be in order
but once i get a MSD 6plus or the Crane Cams equivalant i will take out 2 or 3 degrees timing for 100shot on 93 octane- the bigger fuel pump+SLP stage II pcm and a 125 shot will be in order
I would try to get tunercat or something to do your own tuning, along with a wideband. Also, a stand alone fuel set up would be ideal then you dont have to fool with the intank and you wont have to put tons of good gas in the tank you dont need all the time. damn it's easy for me to spend your money huh??
yeah its easy for me 2 spend my own money man- thats why i have a strict rule of putting half of every paycheck in the banks- i would love a stand alone but...... $600 + install..... that good for a big cam and some head work- I am getting a wideband dataloger that will be connected to the laptop- And i have contacted some affiliates of Cold fusion to set-up a direct port set-up on the 4.3L intake manifold- run a 125 shot with an inline MSD booster pump hoping for 320 to 360whp and thats pushing the stock pistons- bye the time a graduate i hope to blow the motor up so i can put in a high compression/forged rotating assembly with a 175 to 200 progressive shot
I got a great deal on a LC-1 Wideband with gauge from Dynotune 
Nuthing like visiting a vendor in person and have it turn into a Crazy Eddies session with DEEP Discounts!
Vin @ 860 will be putting it in soon
Cheers
Beer
Nuthing like visiting a vendor in person and have it turn into a Crazy Eddies session with DEEP Discounts!
Vin @ 860 will be putting it in soon
Cheers
Beer
The LM1 can do much, much much more than just a/f. Check out there forum, it's freaking unblievable what this can do to aid in tuning or logging.
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/index.php
On the dual stage, maybe you don't want to progress the entire hit into first gear? This were the dual stage, or triple stage come into play. I have mine set-up xxxhp in 1st gear at 3000, then xxxhp comes on at 4100rpm in second gear and both go all the way to redline in 4th gear. I use a 1st gear lock out on 2nd stage. Many of us feel that multi staging is better than progressive. however, i plan on using a progressive controller on my 3rd stage that will be coming on in 2nd gear at 5100rpm. Many ways to do it. I am going, dry, dry, wet. This way you can put a much bigger (250/300) hit into a stock bottom end motor. Basically your breaking up the torque and adding it at higher rpm's where the motor can handle it better. Don't be fooled by these progressive controllers, they are for wuss's. j/k
Robert
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/forums/index.php
On the dual stage, maybe you don't want to progress the entire hit into first gear? This were the dual stage, or triple stage come into play. I have mine set-up xxxhp in 1st gear at 3000, then xxxhp comes on at 4100rpm in second gear and both go all the way to redline in 4th gear. I use a 1st gear lock out on 2nd stage. Many of us feel that multi staging is better than progressive. however, i plan on using a progressive controller on my 3rd stage that will be coming on in 2nd gear at 5100rpm. Many ways to do it. I am going, dry, dry, wet. This way you can put a much bigger (250/300) hit into a stock bottom end motor. Basically your breaking up the torque and adding it at higher rpm's where the motor can handle it better. Don't be fooled by these progressive controllers, they are for wuss's. j/k
Robert
Staging Lane
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 91
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From: GMT-10 Hours
Originally Posted by NXJeremy
frknlo- That exerpt is wrong. I have been bugging the hell out of the guy that does the web page to get it changed. We always recommend being at or above 3000rpm when you activate the system, but more importantly I always tell customers that they just need to avoid lugging the motor. While activating at 3000rpm in 1st gear is ok, activating at 3000rpm in 3rd or 4th (for the guys that like to do the highway runs) could cause some problems due to the load on the motor at the point of activation.
woa that is nuts! Not only is the pdf wrong but even the manual that came with the kit is the same exact thing.What are the reasons to not spray below 3k? Is it because there is not enough airflow before 3k? Is it more prone to backfire? Are there anyother reasons why it is unsafe? Is this warning for all size shots, even something like a 35 or lower?
Mahalo
Couple reasons for the 3000rpm rule. one is because the air is moving so slowly, and a intake back fire can/does happen and it's not pretty. Two, at such a low rpm clyinder pressures skyrocket, because of time in cly, and this is why you can can add a bigger shot higher in the rpms, because engine is turning much faster and mix has less time to do damage. Trust everyone, use a wot sw and a ws set at 3000, or go for it, as some do.
Robert
Robert
Originally Posted by NXJeremy
frknlo- That exerpt is wrong. I have been bugging the hell out of the guy that does the web page to get it changed. We always recommend being at or above 3000rpm when you activate the system, but more importantly I always tell customers that they just need to avoid lugging the motor. While activating at 3000rpm in 1st gear is ok, activating at 3000rpm in 3rd or 4th (for the guys that like to do the highway runs) could cause some problems due to the load on the motor at the point of activation.
02Vortech- I personally have always been of the thinking that with the capabilities of the FJO unit there is not really any benefit to using two stages on a street car that is not spraying a whole lot. I could see where using multiple stages and a progressive controller would be beneficial in a race car application that is spraying 500hp+, but in a street car the FJO unit will allow the user all the adjustability needed to get the power to the ground while maintaining traction. Just my .02
02Vortech- I personally have always been of the thinking that with the capabilities of the FJO unit there is not really any benefit to using two stages on a street car that is not spraying a whole lot. I could see where using multiple stages and a progressive controller would be beneficial in a race car application that is spraying 500hp+, but in a street car the FJO unit will allow the user all the adjustability needed to get the power to the ground while maintaining traction. Just my .02
Originally Posted by 02Vortech
yeah its easy for me 2 spend my own money man- thats why i have a strict rule of putting half of every paycheck in the banks- i would love a stand alone but...... $600 + install..... that good for a big cam and some head work- I am getting a wideband dataloger that will be connected to the laptop- And i have contacted some affiliates of Cold fusion to set-up a direct port set-up on the 4.3L intake manifold- run a 125 shot with an inline MSD booster pump hoping for 320 to 360whp and thats pushing the stock pistons- bye the time a graduate i hope to blow the motor up so i can put in a high compression/forged rotating assembly with a 175 to 200 progressive shot
You are way more advanced then me when i had my jimmy on the juice, i tossed a 125 shot stock FP, 91 oct fuel and r42lts plugs, with a msd window switch set at 2200. All looked good at tear down for a built motor. on a side note, eagle makes some kick *** rods for our motors but the weakest link is the stock offset ground crank, which as of last i heard no one currently makes a replacement
Here's another reason I like multi satge over progressive. Lets say you progress your entire 200 hit to work in first gear with 4.10 gears and drag radials. Now your in second gear and able to take the same hit much sooner, well now your stuck with your first gear set-up. So, I can run faster and quicker with multi stage over progressive. A progressive may be easier to set-up, but optimum for hits under 500hp, I disagree respectively.
Robert
Robert