nozzle shootout results
Originally Posted by 383LQ4SS
I really dont think the minute differences are worthy of putting under a microscope at this point. I really wanted to see one nozzle STAND OUT. If you have to enlarge the graph to see differences and try to squeeze out a little leaner tune to make an extra 3-5 hp over another nozzle...then to me that doesnt show any clear winner.
What this really shows me...bottom line...its all about the flow capabilties of the entire kit. Nitrous flow = hp. Nitrous flow is MUCH more a factor in total HP than nozzle design.
For you guys to show that one nozzle has some type of advantage over another...your REALLY going to have to tighten the resolution on the testing. So much so that agin...I would say the differences are negligable.
To me manufacturer claims of overall nozzle superiority at medium HP levels are dead. I might focus on testing the limits of HP and consistency of tune at the very high flow rates and component quality.
Sorry to beat a dead horse but I do feel somewhat vindicated for the post I made a few months ago.
Here is a link to that post.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/nitrous-oxide/456725-discussion-nitrous-nozzle-design-important.html
The initial idea was:
I am doing a small bit if chest beating here.....I was challenged by most in that thread.
ok..headed to the track to spray a 225 on the stock shortblock and shoot for deep 9s.
What this really shows me...bottom line...its all about the flow capabilties of the entire kit. Nitrous flow = hp. Nitrous flow is MUCH more a factor in total HP than nozzle design.
For you guys to show that one nozzle has some type of advantage over another...your REALLY going to have to tighten the resolution on the testing. So much so that agin...I would say the differences are negligable.
To me manufacturer claims of overall nozzle superiority at medium HP levels are dead. I might focus on testing the limits of HP and consistency of tune at the very high flow rates and component quality.
Sorry to beat a dead horse but I do feel somewhat vindicated for the post I made a few months ago.
Here is a link to that post.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/nitrous-oxide/456725-discussion-nitrous-nozzle-design-important.html
The initial idea was:
I am doing a small bit if chest beating here.....I was challenged by most in that thread.
ok..headed to the track to spray a 225 on the stock shortblock and shoot for deep 9s.
Robert
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From: East Side Performance! mASShole
Originally Posted by mrr23
all dynos were done with the same .062" n2o jet. only change made was to the fuel side to try and achieve 12.0:1 a/f ratio.
i'll be honest with you tho, it realy doesnt matter to me, i was just bringing up a point.
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From: East Side Performance! mASShole
Originally Posted by CAT3
Noyzee....wake up in a bad mood today, or just letting **** get under the skin? (reference the bs forum comment, ouch).
.
.
i was accually in a good mood, Dry kit came in for the vett, now its almost all done (just have to figure out how to wire in the TPSWOT/Window switch
)its just a bunch of bs, its kind of silly to take this post to heart, and anyone looking to buy a kit or parts or whatever would be silly to go by this test.
it is not perfect testing. its close, but so are all the numbers.
know what this test proved, it proved a nozzle is a nozzle is a nozzle. and not to buy a kit because of a nozzle. buy a kit because of the price/customer service/ ect ect
the funny thing is also, the kits are all just about the same. theres only like 2-3 companies out there making noids, and they sell to the 50 people selling N2O kits, so alot of the kits even have the same noids.
i dont remember who runs what, but im pretty sure dynotune and cold fussion are peter paul noids, and im sure they are not the only 2 running peter paul
its like cranks, and valve spring, there is only a few companies that make cranks, they distribute them to others like lunati eagle ect, then those companies finish them, and thats where the price comes in, but anyway.
as for the BS comment, you cant tell me this forum isnt one of the worst forums for the **** slinging!
theres like 7 N2O sponsors on this site, and every one of them is the best, and if you dont buy from them you suck, and my car is better because i run a Bj kit and you suck cuz you run a mut kit bla bla bla.
lets jus race! im going to run you and smoke you because i run a Cold fusion kit
(no dig to CF, just doing some **** slinging. lol)
Originally Posted by Noyzee
the sheets i saw show aone nozzle at 14-1, and one at 13-1. not sure how thats the 12-1 you speak of.
i'll be honest with you tho, it realy doesnt matter to me, i was just bringing up a point.
i'll be honest with you tho, it realy doesnt matter to me, i was just bringing up a point.
there were at least two runs made for each nozzle. first one was at the baseline .062/.033 jetting. then, the next run(s) were done to achieve 12:1 if it wasn't there with the .062/.033 jets. only one didn't need a jet change to achieve that. it was the NOS Silver nozzle. this was all decided in the other thread. now, some weren't exactly 12.0:1 in their runs. IE the ny-trex. it was 14:1(.033), 13.0(.035), and 12.5 (.038) respectively @ 5000 rpms. the run at 12.5 finally hit 12.0 at 5750 rpms.
we all know this test wasn't going to be under perfect circumstances. none the less, it still has some very relevant information that can be used. yes, the entire kit makes the difference, not just one part. but, it helps to understand what an individual part does. just looking at the baseline you see the a/f ratios and hp/tq were all over the place. end result i learned, the baseline jetting is a starting point. getting it on a dyno and getting it dialed in is your best bet in achieving your goal output.
Last edited by mrr23; Apr 14, 2006 at 11:38 AM.
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From: East Side Performance! mASShole
Originally Posted by mrr23
i'm with you. i'd rather be racing as well. but, to me, learning something can be just as fun.
i know what you meen here, but it doenst prove a ton besides all the nozzles are just about the same. lol
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Verdad Gallardo when you do stop to take a look at what data i have up so far, there are some nozzles that do stand out. that is the dynotune, NX SHO, and TNT. between the three, they are right with each other. but when compared to the NOS (which are more for direct port anyway), predator, and ny-trex, they outshine them by a decent margin. you know, i was asssuming my ny-trex nozzle was in the 11-12:1 range as it is on the wife's car. man 14:1!!! which is why i said kinda in the ballpark. and the wideband readings came from the driver's side front o2 bung before the cat. so, that's what's coming right out of the motor.
maybe tonight i'll get a graph up of the 9 nozzles with the .062/.033 runs on it. then the a/f matching runs. then we'll see a where the standouts are.
maybe tonight i'll get a graph up of the 9 nozzles with the .062/.033 runs on it. then the a/f matching runs. then we'll see a where the standouts are.
Last edited by mrr23; Apr 14, 2006 at 12:57 PM.
I personally think the test was well worth the effort and I think everyone learned a little from it. I said that the nozzles would be within 1%. Now I think that probably is a bit too tight. Looks more like 2-3% But most of all I learned that HUGE differences of past claims just arent there. We have seen claims of 30-50 more HP at specific rpm ranges and ramp up times that were MUCH greater that the competition. Thats just not gonna happen. I rellay wanted to see one nozzle just pull out from the rest at some point in the rpm range....even if it was in the first 500 rpm. That just didnt happen
I do think with closer scrutiny some of the nozzles may stand out....but again by very very slim margins.
I think I gave $50 to MRR23 for the testing. I think it was well worth it. There is still alot to be learned I think. And it still may be possible for manufacturers to learn new things as it pertains to nozzle design and overall kit design.
MRR23...the target AF graphs all line up would be interesting.
I do think with closer scrutiny some of the nozzles may stand out....but again by very very slim margins.
I think I gave $50 to MRR23 for the testing. I think it was well worth it. There is still alot to be learned I think. And it still may be possible for manufacturers to learn new things as it pertains to nozzle design and overall kit design.
MRR23...the target AF graphs all line up would be interesting.
Originally Posted by mrr23
i'll see what i can get done later tonight. been neglecting the family some over this one.
j/k
Originally Posted by mrr23
when you do stop to take a look at what data i have up so far, there are some nozzles that do stand out. that is the dynotune, NX SHO, and TNT. between the three, they are right with each other. but when compared to the NOS (which are more for direct port anyway), predator, and ny-trex, they outshine them by a decent margin. you know, i was asssuming my ny-trex nozzle was in the 11-12:1 range as it is on the wife's car. man 14:1!!! which is why i said kinda in the ballpark. and the wideband readings came from the driver's side front o2 bung before the cat. so, that's what's coming right out of the motor.
maybe tonight i'll get a graph up of the 9 nozzles with the .062/.033 runs on it. then the a/f matching runs. then we'll see a where the standouts are.
maybe tonight i'll get a graph up of the 9 nozzles with the .062/.033 runs on it. then the a/f matching runs. then we'll see a where the standouts are.
Robert
Good way to avoid all the drama of my nozzle flows more juice than your nozzle (hehehe) go nozzleless-jetless dry and forgettabout it.
Ok already. Looks like the usefulness of this nozzle thread has been surpassed and we're right back to the famous bullshitting/bitching/moaning amongst the 7 Nitrous Sponsors and their bandwagoners again.
mrr23, thanks again for all the time, effort and stuff put into this.
Ok already. Looks like the usefulness of this nozzle thread has been surpassed and we're right back to the famous bullshitting/bitching/moaning amongst the 7 Nitrous Sponsors and their bandwagoners again.
mrr23, thanks again for all the time, effort and stuff put into this.
Originally Posted by Robert56
I hope everyone remembers that the Dynotune nozzle is in fact the Cold Fusion standard nozzle, and was only out performed by 1.6hp, by the leader NX Sho nozzle. In independent, and in house testing, the Cold Fusion Predator out performed the CF standard nozzle in every case. This brings up an interesting question, Why did our standard nozzle outperform our premium nozzle on this day? Was it the higher humidity, being at the begining of the pulls, richer mixture, the .125 nozzle orifice size (meaning to large for great performance at low hp levels) or what? This is not meant to be a gripe, but rather a observation based on past/present facts, as it seems something is up. Please, any insight would be welcome.
Robert
Robert
Thats why I said in my previous post...if some manufacturers claims where true...we would have seen one set of lines well outside that mass of avg lines that all ran together and followed the same basic shape.
IMO we can nitpick and try to get real close on the evaluations of the data....but what is that going to tell us? That one nozzle makes on avg 4-6 more hp than the next? What would be the benifit (provided that were true) of having a nozzle like that vs the next...what if the nozzle that made 5 more hp on avg came in a kit with powershot noids and the other slightly substandard nozzle came with cheater size noids. I gaurentee the system with the larger noid would win out by a substantial margin with the same nitrous jets.
Originally Posted by CAT3
Good way to avoid all the drama of my nozzle flows more juice than your nozzle (hehehe) go nozzleless-jetless dry and forgettabout it.
Ok already. Looks like the usefulness of this nozzle thread has been surpassed and we're right back to the famous bullshitting/bitching/moaning amongst the 7 Nitrous Sponsors and their bandwagoners again.
mrr23, thanks again for all the time, effort and stuff put into this.
Ok already. Looks like the usefulness of this nozzle thread has been surpassed and we're right back to the famous bullshitting/bitching/moaning amongst the 7 Nitrous Sponsors and their bandwagoners again.
mrr23, thanks again for all the time, effort and stuff put into this.
Robert
Originally Posted by Robert56
Why did our standard nozzle outperform our premium nozzle on this day? Was it the higher humidity, being at the begining of the pulls, richer mixture, the .125 nozzle orifice size (meaning to large for great performance at low hp levels) or what? This is not meant to be a gripe, but rather a observation based on past/present facts, as it seems something is up. Please, any insight would be welcome.
Robert
Robert
...Perhaps it was Creative Marketing for the premium nozzle ?
I will point out that I learned something that may apply to my Forged 402 Mopar Smallblock, I did not know that a fogger may not be the best nozzle for a DP application, and that hitting the valve with a stream is more desirable than than fogging it (or at least that is one view anyway...)
Great test, Thanks again for the time and effort.
Originally Posted by Robert56
I hope everyone remembers that the Dynotune nozzle is in fact the Cold Fusion standard nozzle, and was only out performed by 1.6hp, by the leader NX Sho nozzle. In independent, and in house testing, the Cold Fusion Predator out performed the CF standard nozzle in every case. This brings up an interesting question, Why did our standard nozzle outperform our premium nozzle on this day? Was it the higher humidity, being at the begining of the pulls, richer mixture, the .125 nozzle orifice size (meaning to large for great performance at low hp levels) or what? This is not meant to be a gripe, but rather a observation based on past/present facts, as it seems something is up. Please, any insight would be welcome.
Robert
Robert
If so, post a dyno graph, from the same car this time, with a window switch, and show a/f.
Then usefull insight would be possible.
Originally Posted by Robert56
This brings up an interesting question, Why did our standard nozzle outperform our premium nozzle on this day?
