Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Yes, vindicated, at last, on this test, this day, I think. Seems the lower level hp shots run generally the same torque/power, considering the slight variations in a/f and amount of gas used, amongest other areas. My hat goes off to mrr23 though, as this was quite an undertaking. Now if we can do a big hit test?
Robert

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

maybe when i can afford to do a big motor.

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

more graphs are up. if any of the links do not work, or links to the wrong graph, let me know. i'm bound to make a mistake or three.

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

the sheets i saw show aone nozzle at 14-1, and one at 13-1. not sure how thats the 12-1 you speak of.
i'll be honest with you tho, it realy doesnt matter to me, i was just bringing up a point.

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

i was accually in a good mood, Dry kit came in for the vett, now its almost all done (just have to figure out how to wire in the TPSWOT/Window switch )


its just a bunch of bs, its kind of silly to take this post to heart, and anyone looking to buy a kit or parts or whatever would be silly to go by this test.

it is not perfect testing. its close, but so are all the numbers.
know what this test proved, it proved a nozzle is a nozzle is a nozzle. and not to buy a kit because of a nozzle. buy a kit because of the price/customer service/ ect ect
the funny thing is also, the kits are all just about the same. theres only like 2-3 companies out there making noids, and they sell to the 50 people selling N2O kits, so alot of the kits even have the same noids.
i dont remember who runs what, but im pretty sure dynotune and cold fussion are peter paul noids, and im sure they are not the only 2 running peter paul

its like cranks, and valve spring, there is only a few companies that make cranks, they distribute them to others like lunati eagle ect, then those companies finish them, and thats where the price comes in, but anyway.

as for the BS comment, you cant tell me this forum isnt one of the worst forums for the **** slinging!

theres like 7 N2O sponsors on this site, and every one of them is the best, and if you dont buy from them you suck, and my car is better because i run a Bj kit and you suck cuz you run a mut kit bla bla bla.

lets jus race! im going to run you and smoke you because i run a Cold fusion kit
(no dig to CF, just doing some **** slinging. lol)

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

there were at least two runs made for each nozzle. first one was at the baseline .062/.033 jetting. then, the next run(s) were done to achieve 12:1 if it wasn't there with the .062/.033 jets. only one didn't need a jet change to achieve that. it was the NOS Silver nozzle. this was all decided in the other thread. now, some weren't exactly 12.0:1 in their runs. IE the ny-trex. it was 14:1(.033), 13.0(.035), and 12.5 (.038) respectively @ 5000 rpms. the run at 12.5 finally hit 12.0 at 5750 rpms.

we all know this test wasn't going to be under perfect circumstances. none the less, it still has some very relevant information that can be used. yes, the entire kit makes the difference, not just one part. but, it helps to understand what an individual part does. just looking at the baseline you see the a/f ratios and hp/tq were all over the place. end result i learned, the baseline jetting is a starting point. getting it on a dyno and getting it dialed in is your best bet in achieving your goal output.

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

i'm with you. i'd rather be racing as well. but, to me, learning something can be just as fun.

Noyzee

iTrader: (37)

learning sucks. lol jk.
i know what you meen here, but it doenst prove a ton besides all the nozzles are just about the same. lol

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

when you do stop to take a look at what data i have up so far, there are some nozzles that do stand out. that is the dynotune, NX SHO, and TNT. between the three, they are right with each other. but when compared to the NOS (which are more for direct port anyway), predator, and ny-trex, they outshine them by a decent margin. you know, i was asssuming my ny-trex nozzle was in the 11-12:1 range as it is on the wife's car. man 14:1!!! which is why i said kinda in the ballpark. and the wideband readings came from the driver's side front o2 bung before the cat. so, that's what's coming right out of the motor.

maybe tonight i'll get a graph up of the 9 nozzles with the .062/.033 runs on it. then the a/f matching runs. then we'll see a where the standouts are.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

I personally think the test was well worth the effort and I think everyone learned a little from it. I said that the nozzles would be within 1%. Now I think that probably is a bit too tight. Looks more like 2-3% But most of all I learned that HUGE differences of past claims just arent there. We have seen claims of 30-50 more HP at specific rpm ranges and ramp up times that were MUCH greater that the competition. Thats just not gonna happen. I rellay wanted to see one nozzle just pull out from the rest at some point in the rpm range....even if it was in the first 500 rpm. That just didnt happen
I do think with closer scrutiny some of the nozzles may stand out....but again by very very slim margins.

I think I gave $50 to MRR23 for the testing. I think it was well worth it. There is still alot to be learned I think. And it still may be possible for manufacturers to learn new things as it pertains to nozzle design and overall kit design.


MRR23...the target AF graphs all line up would be interesting.

mrr23

iTrader: (3)

i'll see what i can get done later tonight. been neglecting the family some over this one.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

absolutely....whenever you get the chance.

860 Performance

iTrader: (1)

Hey, whats more important??? I thought you were dedicated to the cause!
j/k

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

I hope everyone remembers that the Dynotune nozzle is in fact the Cold Fusion standard nozzle, and was only out performed by 1.6hp, by the leader NX Sho nozzle. In independent, and in house testing, the Cold Fusion Predator out performed the CF standard nozzle in every case. This brings up an interesting question, Why did our standard nozzle outperform our premium nozzle on this day? Was it the higher humidity, being at the begining of the pulls, richer mixture, the .125 nozzle orifice size (meaning to large for great performance at low hp levels) or what? This is not meant to be a gripe, but rather a observation based on past/present facts, as it seems something is up. Please, any insight would be welcome.
Robert

CAT3

iTrader: (9)

Good way to avoid all the drama of my nozzle flows more juice than your nozzle (hehehe) go nozzleless-jetless dry and forgettabout it.

Ok already. Looks like the usefulness of this nozzle thread has been surpassed and we're right back to the famous bullshitting/bitching/moaning amongst the 7 Nitrous Sponsors and their bandwagoners again.

mrr23, thanks again for all the time, effort and stuff put into this.

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

The reason is that all the nozzles perform nearly the same. And the margin of error in the test procedure and general nitrous kit operation is greater than the actual differences in the in the nozzles by quite a bit. Hence the reason the NOS silver had a 6 hp difference with no jet changes between runs. Thats the only one that was two back to back runs and we got 6 hp difference. If you did back to back to back to back runs on the same setups all day I wouldnt be surprised to see as much as 10-15+ hp difference TRYING to keep everything the same.

Thats why I said in my previous post...if some manufacturers claims where true...we would have seen one set of lines well outside that mass of avg lines that all ran together and followed the same basic shape.

IMO we can nitpick and try to get real close on the evaluations of the data....but what is that going to tell us? That one nozzle makes on avg 4-6 more hp than the next? What would be the benifit (provided that were true) of having a nozzle like that vs the next...what if the nozzle that made 5 more hp on avg came in a kit with powershot noids and the other slightly substandard nozzle came with cheater size noids. I gaurentee the system with the larger noid would win out by a substantial margin with the same nitrous jets.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

What's up with the, bullshitting/bitching/moaning comment? that was meant as pure technical questions. What does does humdity play? Is that a question you can comment on. Also, I felt the need to point out that the Dynotune nozzle was the Cold Fusion nozzle, how is that bullshiting/bitching/moaning when our product comes out on top? I said nothing derogatory about anyone else's products, as was done in previous posts. Come on Charlie, your better than that, give some of your normal insight concerning the tech side.
Robert

Beer99C5

iTrader: (21)

Being a Master Unlimited Oceans any Tonnage and more Importantly...on occassion a Master of the Obvious ...

Perhaps it was Creative Marketing for the premium nozzle ?

I will point out that I learned something that may apply to my Forged 402 Mopar Smallblock, I did not know that a fogger may not be the best nozzle for a DP application, and that hitting the valve with a stream is more desirable than than fogging it (or at least that is one view anyway...)

Great test, Thanks again for the time and effort.

860 Performance

iTrader: (1)

When you say that the preditor out performs the standard nozzle in in-house and independant tests. I assume you are refering to your original claims of power 750 to 1000 rpms earlier and 17.9 hp 'extra hp'?
If so, post a dyno graph, from the same car this time, with a window switch, and show a/f.
Then usefull insight would be possible.

jamnut

iTrader: (4)

New & Improved isn't always as true as it sounds. Remember new coke? It sucked, I remember a few years ago Burger King changed their fries to a new & improved version, they sucked also. Maybe CF had the design right the first time, Maybe it's new, but not really improved - Different works when doing marketing. Most people think that new always means improved, but it doesn't.