andypz28

iTrader: (3)

i took my car to the dyno today and when i sprayed it peaked then fell flat on its face. i need a tune, but i heard i need a wideband. I dont really know what wideband is or how it works. what do you guys suggest i do?
here's the graph and it was on a mustang dyno, topped out at 427 torque and 380 rwhp

also do you guys know more or less what i would have dyno'd on a dynojet?

sidewayz28

iTrader: (24)

who cares what u woulda made on a dynojet. DYNOS ARE FOR TUNING...numbers dont mean ****. those are great numbers bolt ons + n20. i wouldnt be mad at all

andypz28

iTrader: (3)

i think they are great numbers on the bottle, but would have been way better with a good tune.

andypz28

iTrader: (3)

so anything on the wideband?

Beer99C5

iTrader: (21)

A wideband is a gauge used to measure Air/Fuel Ratio.
It measures more accurately a larger range than the factory Narrow band sensors used in closed loop by the PCM.

A wideband would help you to establish and monitor a Safe AFR while spraying. Most will say that under 12.0 is safe for AFR when spraying. Going lean when on the juice is bad (higher numbers), Going Rich is safe (11.0-12).

Some of the factors effecting AFR when spraying is Bottle pressure, jetting, fuel pressure, PCM programing, throttle position etc...

If they did AFR when you were spraying and it was between 11-12 you should be ok, if you jet up or spray at different bottle pressures yes, you may want to invest in a WB. A WB will require a sensor bung welded in your exhaust and wiring up the unit, as well as a gauge being mounted (or use a LM-1 that is a handheld).

Dean and Dan @ Dynotune and Chad at GLMS are Innovate dealers, they sell WB's and are forum sponsors (shoot them a PM).

terry s

iTrader: (5)

I have just started spraying a wet kit and I have an FJO 2 channel wideband. Best $$ I ever spent. I can see exactly what the AFR is and change jets as necessary to get the correct AFR. Otherwise I would have to go to the dyno to see waht the AFR is and I'm not convinced you will see the exact same AFR #s on the dyno as you will on the street or the track. I also put a small (1/4") bright blue LED in my pillar pod next to the AFR guage. It is connected to the wire that feeds 12 volts to the solenoids. So I can easily see if the solenoids are open or closed.

FJO's tech support is great. It also has a built in window switch and TPS switch so you don't need seprate items for those.

The best part is this wideband has limits you can set and if it gets too rich or most importantly too lean it will shut the nitrous down. I have mine set at 12.0 and 10.8. If it gets richer or leaner than that the solenoids close. One thing that some people do not think about is if you get the AFR where you want it and then later something changes such as fuel filter plugs up, fuel pump pressure goes down, injector plugs up, or anything else that affects the AFR you won't know it and you can hurt your motor before you know what happened.

What is your motor worth to you and are you willing to take the risk?

I have noticed that the AFR changes depending on what gear you are in, what rpm you are at, what load the motor is under (such as going up hill, on the level or going down hill.

96prplz28

iTrader: (14)

not to gett of topic but what is the difference between a mustang dyno and a normal dyno?

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Great explanations beer and terry. Here's a pic of the Innovate LM1 wb on my dash. Latter I will be moving it to the glove box and logging directly into my HP Tuner program, and will have a remote gauge on pillar. Great tunning/performance addition. It does much more also.

Here's a kit we offer,
Nitrous Direct Wide Bands
Robert

andypz28

iTrader: (3)

with the wideband, will i be able to change the AFR from that? or does the wideband just tell me what the AFR is at?

terry s

iTrader: (5)

A basic wideband just tells you what the AFR is. You cannot use it to change the AFR. If you have a wet kit changing the AFR is easy. Just change the jetting.

As you can see from the posts different wide bands have different features. Thay are not all the same.

andypz28

iTrader: (3)

how would you fix the AFR on a dry shot though?

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Glad you asked. well it's as easy as a wet hit if nozzle choice and location was/is correct. You just rotate your 70* or 90* nozzle until desired a/f is met, very simple concept that is starting to take hold. If you locate nozzle to far from MAF then tunning must be done in the computer, but even that is really not much of an issue cause most are getting tuned anywho.
Robert

andypz28

iTrader: (3)

i have dual nozzles on the side of the lid, so i just rotate them until the desired AFR?
what if i mess with the A/F mixture itself, will it take power away when im running on all motor?

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Robert

andypz28

iTrader: (3)

yes they are straight shooters, but maybe i could set up the nozzles a bit closer.
if i move them 3-4 inches away from the MAF, would i not need a tune as bad? and how much more accurate would my AFR be?
i have someone helping me next weekend to mess with the AFR and i sure as hell wouldnt mind losing 5hp n/a if i can make 10-20 hp more on spray.
also, what about those halo rings? how would those work? and how much better off would i be?

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Well first you need to establish if you need to do anything. A small dry hit with the straight shooters coming in at side of box is often ok. Moving them and changing to a different style is one option if too lean, going into computer is another option. The Halo bar is the same, you are stuck with what ever ratio you have, unless going into the computer. The idea behind using a pair or a single 90* style nozzle close to MAF, is that it can be directed to spray exactly onto the heated MAF wire (cooling of wire and subsuquent changing voltage is how the comp calculates injector pulse width, meaning the more you cool it off the more fuel comes out the injector). This will give a generally rich condition, then start rotating the nozzle slightly (less direct hit on maf wire, so a lower injector pulse width) so some of the nitrous is going above or below the wire. Simple really, why the manufacturers haven't figured this out is behond me. Now when introducing all of the nitrous in the middle of box, it has a tendancy to mix well with incoming air and thus, a less of a cold hit on MAF wire.
Robert

andypz28

iTrader: (3)

ok, i seem to get the idea now.
im sorry for all the noob questions, but i am very grateful for you're help

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Hey, no problem what so ever, as I like to help if/when I can.
Robert

Dragframe

iTrader: (14)

Wow... this thread is good.... Thanks for the good explinations. Though i will probly never have a ls1 let alone a dry shot to spray on one, this was still some good stuff.

Anyone have a ls1 car they want to give me or sell me cheap? lol. I want to have a heads/cam and nitroused ls1...

The Turbo/nitroused LT1 is looked down upon by LS1 owners =(.... untill it smokes them.. lol

terry s

iTrader: (5)

I just finished changing jets and data logging some wide open throttle runs spraying only a 50 shot. It is amazing how much difference there is in AFR from one run to the next. Some runs were around 12.0 and othere were around 10.8-10.9. Most were around 11.4-11.8 Even with an AFR guage it gives you an idea of what the AFR is but it can change so fast thre is no way you can accuratly read the guage.

This reinforced my thoughts that if you go get your AFR set on the dyno as soon as you drive down the street it will be different.

Now I see why it is easy for someone to loose a motor on spray. I think anyone without a wideband is playing with fire and could get burned. It is like driving down the street blind folded.

I also think it is foolish to spray with out a way for the system to shut down if the AFR gets in the danger zone particularly on the lean side. Many people are spraying with out this protection. Some will be lucky and get away with it but some will be

I even found as much as .5 to .8 AFR difference between the right and left bank at times and at other times they were very close together. Usually one bank was the lean side but at other times the other bank was lean.

I was glad to find no lean spikes as it went to WOT. As soon as the throttle went wide open it started getting richer.