Check this out! NEW Nitrous Product @ SEMA
11-10-2006, 08:17 AM
#41
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Originally Posted by chuntington101
nice setup! so how much time do you get on the N2O now compeard to with just the bottle???
also is it $17 for the fill of the big bottle or the little one???
Chris.
also is it $17 for the fill of the big bottle or the little one???
Chris.
$17 to fill the full size (welder size) tank. The local Paintball store fills the small one for 3 or 4 dollars
11-10-2006, 08:20 AM
#42
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Originally Posted by Bad Habit Bird
cyipher
- So you just have a regulator on the nitrogen tank and then it runs to the nitrous bottle?
- Would you mind posting up or PMing me the info on where I could find the parts needed to make a setup like this?
- Do you think this would work well with a 5lb nitrous bottle? it would be easier to hide two 5lb bottles that one 10lber
- So you just have a regulator on the nitrogen tank and then it runs to the nitrous bottle?
- Would you mind posting up or PMing me the info on where I could find the parts needed to make a setup like this?
- Do you think this would work well with a 5lb nitrous bottle? it would be easier to hide two 5lb bottles that one 10lber
5 lb bottles should work as long as it has the correct valve on it it should work.
11-10-2006, 10:22 AM
#43
Originally Posted by cyipher
same thing as if you run low on bottle pressure you run pig rich, and have no power.
Cyipher - really appreciate all your input on this subject. I'm sure the others do as well. I hope people didn't get the wrong idea of my stand on this from the beginning of the thread.. I wasn't commenting on the validity of this set up, just the cost of the kit. From what you've posted, seems like making your own kit is cheap. Thanks again!
11-10-2006, 10:49 AM
#44
For anyone else looking into this... I found this blurb on a paintball gun site forum. I looked into the bottle he's talking about.. Amazon has them for $169.
...As for what tank to get, it depends. I would DEFINATLY though get a larger HPA tank then 2 smaller ones. It will cost you more to buy the 2 smaller tanks and you wont get as much air, plus its a PITA to carry 2 around (they are bulky).
If you want the max # of shots only look at the 4500PSI tanks (e.g. fiber wrapped NOT aluminum/chrome molly). A 4500PSI tank that has a smaller CUI volume then a larger CUI 3000PSI tank is going to hold more shots in a smaller place. When you compare tanks of equal size or a larger 4500PSI tank, the # of shots increases significantly. I just opted to get the Dye 4500/70CUI "peanut" tank (see my "bit the bullet" post in this forum). This holds quite a bit of air and is very compact (short) so I can keep it in close.
Really though, if you want my opinion, get the highest PSI/largest CUI fiber tank you can afford. I saw a brand new Pure Energy 4500/88CUI tank on eBay for 180 bucks... NOT a bad deal at all.
...As for what tank to get, it depends. I would DEFINATLY though get a larger HPA tank then 2 smaller ones. It will cost you more to buy the 2 smaller tanks and you wont get as much air, plus its a PITA to carry 2 around (they are bulky).
If you want the max # of shots only look at the 4500PSI tanks (e.g. fiber wrapped NOT aluminum/chrome molly). A 4500PSI tank that has a smaller CUI volume then a larger CUI 3000PSI tank is going to hold more shots in a smaller place. When you compare tanks of equal size or a larger 4500PSI tank, the # of shots increases significantly. I just opted to get the Dye 4500/70CUI "peanut" tank (see my "bit the bullet" post in this forum). This holds quite a bit of air and is very compact (short) so I can keep it in close.
Really though, if you want my opinion, get the highest PSI/largest CUI fiber tank you can afford. I saw a brand new Pure Energy 4500/88CUI tank on eBay for 180 bucks... NOT a bad deal at all.
11-10-2006, 11:17 AM
#45
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I really like the fact that they have regulators built into the tank, does anyone know how accurate/reliable they are? Is there a way to find out the physical dimensions of the tanks? Everything I have seen just lists cui's.
11-10-2006, 11:46 AM
#46
Just talked to a paintball gun place. Seems the bottles can be any size and shape. The paintball world just goes by cu in. He said "most" of them are about 5-5.5 in. dia. It isn't like our N2O bottles. I'm going to stop by a store tonight and take a look.. start getting edjumacated.
Does this mean I can put paint ***** in my tail pipes and shoot the loosers?
Does this mean I can put paint ***** in my tail pipes and shoot the loosers?
11-10-2006, 12:21 PM
#48
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This is nothing new, If I rember right Barry Grant had a patent on this years ago. I'm just going to copy and paste my response to this topic from another forum.
Push systems have been around for a long time and just like regulators there is a reason they have never taken off. There are a couple of problems I see with them. First they aren't allowed in a lot of classes. Second you still want to maintain a consistent bottle temperature because as the temp goes up the density goes down. Normally this isn't an issue because the heat and pressure are tied together, but when you artificially raise the bottle pressure through a push system of any kind you raise the pressure while density stays relatively the same. This can have an adverse affect on your tune up. And third when you introduce nitrogen to the nitrous bottle it will dilute the bottle requiring you to completely empty the bottle for best results when filling. It is generally easier to add a second bottle to help fight pressure drop than it is to do a push set up. If you do require a push system for some reason a sealed bladder inside the bottle or a purpose built accumulator I feel would be a better option.
I'm not saying that these type of setups don't work just that there is more to it than some people are aware of. And most street cars don't use enough nitrous in one pass to warrant such an elobarate setup. A 15lb bottle will support 350+ horse power worth of nitrous. And is far less expensive than a push system.
Push systems have been around for a long time and just like regulators there is a reason they have never taken off. There are a couple of problems I see with them. First they aren't allowed in a lot of classes. Second you still want to maintain a consistent bottle temperature because as the temp goes up the density goes down. Normally this isn't an issue because the heat and pressure are tied together, but when you artificially raise the bottle pressure through a push system of any kind you raise the pressure while density stays relatively the same. This can have an adverse affect on your tune up. And third when you introduce nitrogen to the nitrous bottle it will dilute the bottle requiring you to completely empty the bottle for best results when filling. It is generally easier to add a second bottle to help fight pressure drop than it is to do a push set up. If you do require a push system for some reason a sealed bladder inside the bottle or a purpose built accumulator I feel would be a better option.
I'm not saying that these type of setups don't work just that there is more to it than some people are aware of. And most street cars don't use enough nitrous in one pass to warrant such an elobarate setup. A 15lb bottle will support 350+ horse power worth of nitrous. And is far less expensive than a push system.
11-10-2006, 12:37 PM
#49
A second bottle.. now there's going back to page one of this thread. LOL.
Good post. Although I'm not a fluid dyn. engineer, I wonder about the "diluting" effects since the N doesn't compress. Another one I'll have to look into. Good point about the density.. makes sense. (volumetric properties) and that could make a huge difference in a wet system.
Good post. Although I'm not a fluid dyn. engineer, I wonder about the "diluting" effects since the N doesn't compress. Another one I'll have to look into. Good point about the density.. makes sense. (volumetric properties) and that could make a huge difference in a wet system.
11-10-2006, 12:38 PM
#50
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While I agree with everything you posted I do believe that different people have different needs.
For the most part when I spray it will just be while I am out driving around and want the rush of the extra power or I am going to take someone for a ride real quick. In those situations waiting to heat up a bottle for 15-30 minutes sucks, especially if you can just hit a switch and have bottle pressure where you need it right then.
As far as diluting the bottle, well yes you will have to empty to bottle completely before you refill it but you are able to get more nitrous out of the bottle before having to refill it.
For the most part when I spray it will just be while I am out driving around and want the rush of the extra power or I am going to take someone for a ride real quick. In those situations waiting to heat up a bottle for 15-30 minutes sucks, especially if you can just hit a switch and have bottle pressure where you need it right then.
As far as diluting the bottle, well yes you will have to empty to bottle completely before you refill it but you are able to get more nitrous out of the bottle before having to refill it.
11-10-2006, 01:08 PM
#51
Originally Posted by Bad Habit Bird
While I agree with everything you posted I do believe that different people have different needs.
For the most part when I spray it will just be while I am out driving around and want the rush of the extra power or I am going to take someone for a ride real quick. In those situations waiting to heat up a bottle for 15-30 minutes sucks, especially if you can just hit a switch and have bottle pressure where you need it right then.
As far as diluting the bottle, well yes you will have to empty to bottle completely before you refill it but you are able to get more nitrous out of the bottle before having to refill it.
For the most part when I spray it will just be while I am out driving around and want the rush of the extra power or I am going to take someone for a ride real quick. In those situations waiting to heat up a bottle for 15-30 minutes sucks, especially if you can just hit a switch and have bottle pressure where you need it right then.
As far as diluting the bottle, well yes you will have to empty to bottle completely before you refill it but you are able to get more nitrous out of the bottle before having to refill it.
Just no stability in the final a/f unless you have your bottle at the same temp each time, and thus the need for still a bottle heater. Now a dry hit you would be fine a/f wise, but power differences would still be all over the place.
Here's my 30lb cure for bottle pressure drop.
Robert
11-10-2006, 02:18 PM
#53
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Originally Posted by Robert56@NitrousDirect
The problem with your scenerio, at least with wet hits, is, the variable tempture day to day, week to week. whats going to happen when you have your reg pressure set to a cold day, then the next day it's hotter or vs verse.
Just no stability in the final a/f unless you have your bottle at the same temp each time, and thus the need for still a bottle heater. Now a dry hit you would be fine a/f wise, but power differences would still be all over the place.
Here's my 30lb cure for bottle pressure drop.
Robert
Just no stability in the final a/f unless you have your bottle at the same temp each time, and thus the need for still a bottle heater. Now a dry hit you would be fine a/f wise, but power differences would still be all over the place.
Here's my 30lb cure for bottle pressure drop.
Robert
11-10-2006, 02:41 PM
#54
Originally Posted by Bad Habit Bird
Outside temp will not effect the bottle pressure of the nitrogen like it does the nitrous. Whatever you set the regulator at is what your nitrous bottle pressure will stay at. That is what is so nice about this type of a setup
Robert
11-10-2006, 02:50 PM
#55
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Originally Posted by Robert56@NitrousDirect
Hmmm... So the pressure of your nitorus bottle has no bearing on final pressure you see at engine. so no difference if you bottle is 650psi on a cold day and push is at 1000psi, you end up with what? Compared to a hot day and your bottle is at 1100 and your push is at 1000psi you end up with what pressure?
Robert
Robert
Cold day - Nitrous bottle = 650psi / Nitrogen bottle = 3000psi (regulated output of 1100psi)
In the above listed example the nitrous bottles pressure will be brought UP to 1100psi and will remain at that number. As you spray and the nitrous bottle starts to lose pressure the nitrogen bottle will feed more nitrogen into the nitrous bottle so the pressure remains at 1100psi. The nitrogen bottle can do this because it is stored at a much higher pressure than the nitrous.
If your nitrous pressure creeps above what you have your regulator set at you just need to keep an eye on it and make sure it does not get too high. If it does the burst disk should blow before the nitrous would make its way into the nitrogen bottle.
11-10-2006, 05:21 PM
#57
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Originally Posted by Todd157k
A second bottle.. now there's going back to page one of this thread. LOL.
Good post. Although I'm not a fluid dyn. engineer, I wonder about the "diluting" effects since the N doesn't compress. Another one I'll have to look into. Good point about the density.. makes sense. (volumetric properties) and that could make a huge difference in a wet system.
Good post. Although I'm not a fluid dyn. engineer, I wonder about the "diluting" effects since the N doesn't compress. Another one I'll have to look into. Good point about the density.. makes sense. (volumetric properties) and that could make a huge difference in a wet system.
The pressure of your nitrous bottle should not effect the final pressure of the system since all you are doing is creating a pressure differential and once they equalize all should be good.
11-10-2006, 06:17 PM
#58
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Originally Posted by srsnow
The diluting comes from the fact that the nitrous and nitrogen will mix, eventually diluting the mixture. Compressed air is an interesting idea I have seen it used in an accumulator but never in a push system. This may help with some of diluting. I still feel that it is overkill for the street. $700 will buy you a bigger/extra bottle and a lot of nitrous to put in said bottles.
The pressure of your nitrous bottle should not effect the final pressure of the system since all you are doing is creating a pressure differential and once they equalize all should be good.
The pressure of your nitrous bottle should not effect the final pressure of the system since all you are doing is creating a pressure differential and once they equalize all should be good.
11-10-2006, 06:19 PM
#59
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Originally Posted by Bad Habit Bird
Here is an example:
Cold day - Nitrous bottle = 650psi / Nitrogen bottle = 3000psi (regulated output of 1100psi)
In the above listed example the nitrous bottles pressure will be brought UP to 1100psi and will remain at that number. As you spray and the nitrous bottle starts to lose pressure the nitrogen bottle will feed more nitrogen into the nitrous bottle so the pressure remains at 1100psi. The nitrogen bottle can do this because it is stored at a much higher pressure than the nitrous.
If your nitrous pressure creeps above what you have your regulator set at you just need to keep an eye on it and make sure it does not get too high. If it does the burst disk should blow before the nitrous would make its way into the nitrogen bottle.
Cold day - Nitrous bottle = 650psi / Nitrogen bottle = 3000psi (regulated output of 1100psi)
In the above listed example the nitrous bottles pressure will be brought UP to 1100psi and will remain at that number. As you spray and the nitrous bottle starts to lose pressure the nitrogen bottle will feed more nitrogen into the nitrous bottle so the pressure remains at 1100psi. The nitrogen bottle can do this because it is stored at a much higher pressure than the nitrous.
If your nitrous pressure creeps above what you have your regulator set at you just need to keep an eye on it and make sure it does not get too high. If it does the burst disk should blow before the nitrous would make its way into the nitrogen bottle.
I think it not a pressure to low problem but as pressure to high problem, the fix for this is a ball valve instead of a check valve so you can vent the nitrogen without losing too much nitrous
11-10-2006, 06:20 PM
#60
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Originally Posted by srsnow
The diluting comes from the fact that the nitrous and nitrogen will mix, eventually diluting the mixture. Compressed air is an interesting idea I have seen it used in an accumulator but never in a push system. This may help with some of diluting. I still feel that it is overkill for the street. $700 will buy you a bigger/extra bottle and a lot of nitrous to put in said bottles.
The pressure of your nitrous bottle should not effect the final pressure of the system since all you are doing is creating a pressure differential and once they equalize all should be good.
The pressure of your nitrous bottle should not effect the final pressure of the system since all you are doing is creating a pressure differential and once they equalize all should be good.
i dont know if it will mix, but i'll burn thru a 10 lb bottle in no time at a track or a weekend on the street.