bad6as

iTrader: (17)

im looking in to doing a 100-125 dry shot and have been going back and fourth between a single nozzle and the halo kit

i like how the halo kit is under the lid and on top of the filter. and i think it would mix with the air very very well.
but i dont know why some say it does not hit as hard as a single nozzle

now the nozzle is tired and true and has been around for ever. i think the n20 would be more of a stream of n20 then a fog like the halo

the car is in the sig and has the mods listed and will also have a underdrive pulley and some what ever size injectors i might need and a dyno tune to make sure the a/f is where it should be

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Here's a thread for insight.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/nitrous-oxide/675906-your-opinion-will-nozzle-setup-work-z06-dry-shot-w-pics.html
Robert

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

I have tested with both Nozzles are the Halo.

The Halo hits softer because it does a better job of nitrous distribution. Just like a direact port does not hit hard when tuned correct.

If you plan on tunning the dry shot the proper way through the pcm the Halo is the way to go. If you plan on tunning the car by nozzle location the nozzle will be the way to go.

I happen to think the Halo makes for a much cleaner install as well.
Dave

Matt@HSW

iTrader: (14)

General rule of thumb is the further the "nozzle" is from the MAF the leaner the A/F will be. On some later year PCMs you can adjust WOT A/F so it'll run slightly richer then NA when you spray a dry shot, but it looks like your looking for a kit for a '98, which does not have access to those tables. You could still do a tune, but you'll be running pretty rich @ WOT NA if you go that route.

Matt

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Computer tunning is not my strong point. I have simply not had time to learn. Moe does all our computer tunning and worked for me at the speed shop for 6 years. We kept the dyno rollers running night and day. We tuned many of dry cars. My understanding from Moe is that you pretty much tune it just like a supercharged car.
We have seen 99.9 percent systems go from being lean with a nozzle to going rich with our cone style filter and Halo discharges. The reason why is that we are completely merging the airflow with nitrous. There is no way for it to miss the maff.

Here is an example of a customer having a lean issue with a nozzle. By simply converting over to our design we put him on the opposite side of the board.
http://www.performancetrucks.net/for...d.php?t=383506

Dave

Matt@HSW

iTrader: (14)

Sounds like something else is happening as far as going lean at the end of a run. With a halo mounted in a lid of a LS1 F-Body you'll be running 13.0 - 14.0 A/F, pretty much like you would with a nozzle(s) in that location. Sure, you can add additional fuel via a tune, but who wants to run 11.8 A/F NA? Talk about a major loss in NA horsepower!

Matt

Breaking Stuff

iTrader: (11)

So let me get this straight. I should point my nozzle directly at the maf about 3 - 4 inches away? My concern is going lean (duh) and am almost scared to spray it for fear of not having optimal nozzle placement. I can post a dyno graph to give you an idea of where my A/F is at. There is too much info out there that contradicts each other and I find myself confused.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Matt,
Being that dry kits are so finiky to start with we have came across lean applications before. However most every application we do with our Halo design is actually pretty close if Not rich.

Tuned properly by someone that knows what they are doing you can set the computer tune to run a NA tune including airfuel just like any other set up. Then add or take away fuel through the PCM tune for when the nitrous hits.

Our first Halo designs actually had the discharge spraying towards the maff on one side of the Halo. After two years we ran across a car that no matter what was done the car still wanted to run lean.(For the record we were not the ones tunning this car)

To insure this did not happen again we moved the discharges to the sides of the Halo on both sides.

In all the years we have been in this game. We have tuned many Dry/Wet nitrous set ups as well as Turbo, supercharged and NA applications.

I know everyone has there own way of doing things and different people have different levels of knowledge and training. Im just stating how we do it.
Trust me it works.....
Dave

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

You can play with Nozzle placement to get your airfuel where it needs to be. This is a band aid way of tunning it. However lots of people do it. Just watch your airfuel while tunning. Then make sure your nozzle is tightened in place good and can not move. Because if it moves your tune up will change.........

Or you can tune it through computer tunning. If you are doing your own computer tunning and would like to talk to someone that can give you some information that may help shoot me a pm and I will give you Moes number.
Dave

Breaking Stuff

iTrader: (11)

I dont do my own tuning . There are a lot of options in my area, but none seem to emphasize on N20. I would like to get someone to tune my car that is proficient in N20 tuning and more so dry kits. I would even drive a state over to get it done. It sucks all you guys are on the other side of the country. I guess I need to get a wideband and play with nozzle location, I just dont want to grenade my motor in the process.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Is there anyone in your area that tunes forced induction applications? If so they probley know what to do. If not they can call Moe and he will talk to them.
Dave

Matt@HSW

iTrader: (14)

Sorry Dave, I disagree. In some late model PCMs you can use the IAT vs Fuel Adder table to add additional fuel for a dry shot, but unless the placement of the nozzle is good you won't add enough fuel that way. Sounds like you guys might have unlocked a GM secret in the PCM if you are able to do what you say (or you guys were the pioneers of running custom OS on PCMs).

Dry kits defiantly have the advantages, but they also have there down sides too. Same goes for wet kits too.

Matt

Matt@HSW

iTrader: (14)

If you are talking about adding fuel via the PE mode, yes that will work. But what happens when you go into PE & you are NOT spraying your dry nitrous? You go very rich and leave a lot of HP on the table.

Matt

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

The way we tune a dry shot we end up with 12.5 N/A and around 11.8 On the Nitrous.

Dave

Matt@HSW

iTrader: (14)

That is they way it should be, but you are not going to get the tune to do it for you, that's nozzle placement all the way.

Matt

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Matt, No disrespect intended here. But I completely disagree with you.

The tune lies with in a combination of maff and PE tables. The tune is no different than a Forced induction tune.

Dave

383LQ4SS

iTrader: (33)

MAtt...Im pretty sure there are ways to tune the PCM so that it affects only the areas in the PCM table that "see" the elevated MAF reporting when dry nitrous is spraying.

I did not have the option on my 99 to use the IAT tables. So we had to go in and use the MAF tables for timing retard and fuel.

It is hard to do if your on a small shot...since the area you would change has to be above and beyond what the PCM would ever see NA...and those blocks are not that accurate. It would help if the resolution was higher.
But when I sprayed the 300 shot all dry we had about 4 degress pulled on the first 150 stage from 3000-4600 and then after the second 150 hit it would pull another 4 degrees from 4600-6800. AF would go from 13 to 1 NA to about 11.5 on the first stage and then down to around 11.2 on the second.

Jeremy Formato does all my dry nitrous tuning. We tried the IAT thing first for timing...that didnt work for me. So we tried using the MAF tables since the MAF will see frequencies well above what it would ever see NA to add fuel and retard timing.

Then it wont affect your NA tune.
It takes a bit of time to do. I belive Jeremy Formato charges a slight premium for the dry tuning....but its worth it IMO.

Its no different than tuning a boosted car with a MAF really.

Matt@HSW

iTrader: (14)

Okay, so you are pulling timing based on RPM & Cylinder Airmass to affect A/F (and to pull some timing)? If so, I understand what you are saying, but how many ls1tech members out there are spraying big (300+) dry shots? For the majority of guys running 175 or less the resolution in those tables is not there, so yes, you and Dave got me, you can do it, if you have a healthy sized shot.

Now if you are just hitting the MAF airflow table you'll effect the NA calibration, granted it will be down low in the cells that you hit when NA, but you'll still be affecting your NA tune going that route.

Matt

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

We are doing it with the common 75 to 150 hp size shots as well.
Dave

Matt@HSW

iTrader: (14)

You should share it with the ls1tech community dave, I'm sure you will be helping quite a few of it's members.

Matt