Z'mnypit

iTrader: (58)

Has anybody else running a Nitro Daves dual stage plate system been having problems with running lean? I recently did an install on a TA and we took it to the dyno and started off with a 100shot and had huge lean spike and had to shut it down, Everytime we tired it would keep doing that. Im talking 12.8-1 pertect straight line across the board all motor and as soon as the WS kicks in and the nitrous acitvates its spikes up to 17.1-1. Both solenoids are spraying gas, we checked them. All lines are equal lenth from the solenoids. The kit hasnt been modified at all, its straight out of the box from Nitro Dave like it was when he ordered it 3 months ago. He took it back to the dyno today, and had another guy look at it and they messed around with it and still doing the same thing. Tried the 200 shot and it spiked lean for a min then started pulling back rich at the very end where it was way fat. (10-1 range) Not sure why they stayed in it but they did. Any suggestions? I thought maybe a delay in the nitrous would work, but that means he'd have to buy longer lines or a delay module. He payed around $1500 for this setup so you would think it would be perfect. Any thoughts are much appreciated.

Mods:
LME forged 347
Cartek 2x heads
comp 226/226
racetronix PnP
Ford SVO 36lb injectors
LS6 intake

He defiantly has enough gas and injector.

Thanks!

2thousand2

Damn! nice car in your sig first off!!

If the kit pulls off the fuel rail (schrader test port) it will always have a lean spike for a second until the pump catches up. The only way around this is a standalone fuel pump/fuel cell or a return style fuel system. The injectors will starve for fuel for just a second before catching up. If it is STAYING at 17:1 a/f there is not enough fuel coming through the plate, try changing the jetting.

Lythropus

iTrader: (13)

Subscribing...how large of a shot did you intend to run on each stage?

WE TODD DID

iTrader: (2)

Lets see a picture of the plate, to see if its the one I'm thinking of.

Lythropus

iTrader: (13)

I'm assuming it's this plate system...

Z'mnypit

iTrader: (58)

Thanks! I knew it would for a sec but it doenst want to flatten back out. We did changed the jets out with 50 nitrous on both stages and 100 fuel on both stages. Went way lean again, then went pig rich. My TNT F1 kit does not do this, when it sprays its perfect all the way across the graph.



Hes wanting to run up tp 150hp on each stage. He said thats what they told him he could do on the phone safely. I said theres no way thats going to happen, so hes wanting at least 250shot total. Thats not to much to ask.

Thats it!

Z'mnypit

iTrader: (58)

Im starting to think, he needs to return the plate and run a dual nozzle setup. I can see where it would prolly work pretty good with a single stage, but with a dual I just cant see it flowing that well the ways its designed. Could be wrong though!

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Ok,
Sorry I have not made it to the board since last week.

In your set up you have a built engine. (What is the HP being put out by the motor alone)

The racetronix fuel system is only good for about 650 rear wheel hp. With a built engine and a 200 shot I am willing to bet that you are straining the fuel system.

Basically what is happening is that when the nitrous hits the fuel pump is trugling to recover. Then on the top end its starting to gradually recover and strts richening back up.

The way to see if this is the problem is to watch fuel pressure with a fuel pressure gauge. When the system hits I bet the fuel pressure drops.

I promise you that our plate design will blow any dual nozzle kit out of the water. All the plates are flow tested before they ship so there is a machanical problem somewhere.

If you will let me help you I will walk you through the steps of locating the problem.

Lets start with checking the fuel pressure.
Dave

Z'mnypit

iTrader: (58)

Motor is a forged LME 347, made 393.7 on the motor. I understand the restrictions on racetronix, but even on the 100 shot we were having that problem. That would still put the motor shy of 500hp with a 100shot. And theres no way its maxed out on that.

But your prolly right about straining the fuel pump, I was looking over the setup and this is what I see as the problem, off the fuel rail that a 2 ft feed line, then it T's off to 2- 18' lines going to the solenoids, then from the solenoids there are 2- 2ft lines to the plate. The lenghts may not be exact but looks close to that. Thats a long way for the fuel to travel before it even gets there. So it does sound like this could be the problem.

There is a fuel pressure gauge in the car, I told the owner to hit it with the small jets after work to see what the pressure does. Hes suppose to let me know this after noon. Im open to anything you want me to try...

I think he is going to call you this afternoon. He said he was anyways.

Bad Habit Bird

iTrader: (12)

Sounds like the pump can't keep up to me. I believe Dave sells stand alone systems to solve that problem

I am sort of suprised he was going to even try spraying that much without a standalone and race gas.

Ray@Nitrous Outlet

This would not be an issue as the lines between the fuel rail and the solenoids are pressureized when you crank the car.

Z'mnypit

iTrader: (58)

I believe that..

I sprayed 250 on my TNT F1 kit on a 408ci/ractronix/42lb injectors and I didnt have the first problem. It was even going way rich above 5000rpm

Z'mnypit

iTrader: (58)

True, but when the kit is active, its still a long ways for it to travel.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Yes that is alot of plennum area to fill.
Watching the fuel pressure gauge will tell us if that is the problem.

If fuel pressure is not a problem we need to start going up on the fuel jet. You should start seeing the airfuel getting richer with the jet changes. If the fuel pressure is staying rock solid and jet changes are not helping we have another problem somewhere else.


As far as fuel delivery I have seen one car with the same set up as the other run out of fuel and the other one being fine..
Dave

Z'mnypit

iTrader: (58)

Sounds good, Ill let you know in a bit what the pressure does.

Loudmouth LS1

iTrader: (10)

Not second guessing you, just trying to learn a little something for my own experiences. I was under the impression that when the solenoid suddenly opens, it's gonna loose some pressure from that pressure that's built up in the line and I figured the less line it had to travel/repressurize the faster it would recoop and restabilize, no?

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

You are correct..
Dave

Loudmouth LS1

iTrader: (10)

Cool, cuz I just shortened my line from the standalone to the y to try and get rid of some of my lean spike, I had about 2 foot of line before the y and then 1 foot to each noid off the y, I was able to cut a foot off before the y, so hopefully it helps a little. And then after the noids, it's whatever length line that comes with the nx dual stg maf, think it's like 18".

Ray@Nitrous Outlet

The point I was trying to get across is all of the lines between the fuel rail and the solenoid will be pressurized when the pump primes.....when the kit activates and the fuel solenoid opens it will need to fill the lines from the solenoid to the nozzle/plate. There will be a slight pressure drop but the upstream lines are still full, they are under flowing fuel pressure instead of static pressure. How long it takes to recover will be a factor of the plenum volume that needs to be filled downstream of the solenoid and the flow rate of the fuel pump.

To reduce a lean spike from this occurence it is better to shorten/reduce the plenum volume on the downstream side, or between the solenoid and the nozzle/plate

Loudmouth LS1

iTrader: (10)

Let me ask you guys a quick ?, the maf kit I bought off my buddy already had everything for a -4 setup, and I have everything setup for -6, so I just got an adapter to screw my -6 lines comin from the bottles and the standalone onto that then screwed over the -4 y's which have -4 lines on them to the noids, is that hurting me, or is it ok?