dnkynrbk

iTrader: (34)

Just wanted to know how many of you guys are running a progressive controller or just running a window switch and wot switch. I called a couple nitrous companys and they told the progressive controller was good on a M6 car but if you were hooking up you didnt need one. Plus the wear and tear on there kits. I also heard there was a controller out there that had a 2 stage pluse a wot swith built in. Just wanted some imput thought about going to a 250 shot with a stand alone and I didnt know if all that power shooting thru my car would be hard on the motor. thanks.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

IMO, no matter what the vendors say, the progressives beat the hell out of the noids, even the good big noids. If ya need to break up the hit because of traction or bottom end (torque spike) run a dual stage, or a triple stage. You can even lock one or more stages out of first gear, through a couple different ways. Check out all the big dogs, they allmost all run multi stage.
The dual stage WS you speak of is the Trick WS, which a few of the site vendors carry. I think FJO has one also, and a couple others on the market.

Now with all that said, if you really want to run a progressive controller, and stay on top of your noids, with inspections and rebuilds, then a prog may be for you.
Robert

99FRC

iTrader: (5)

I voted that I am currently running a window switch and WOT switch, but I'm seriously considering the change to the progressive controller due to traction issues and clutch wear.

99 FRC

dnkynrbk

iTrader: (34)

I dont have any traction problems just dont know about the torque spike. What would recommend as a good 2 stage switch

BadAssFast

iTrader: (2)

Beat the hell out of the noids? They quickly pulse them - but who cares. They are SOLENOIDS they like to open and close. They can handle it just fine - well the NX can and they do. Damn Robert don't give people misinformation. Robert runs a multi stage system...still a real good way to break up your shots...but I run a well tuned 200 shot with a NX/Nitrous Outlet/FJO very simple and VERY effective. I run mid 10s all day long and it's so easy and clean. Go with an FJO Mini or something bigger!!

Best thing I ever did for my N20 system. I did it for other reasons - but it is a no brainer once you do it. You can adjust for changing conditions very easily.

NXRICKY

iTrader: (1)

One thing a progressive will give you that no multistage system can, is control over the power curve. What this means is, you are increasing your power from one point to the next, not snacking them on in stages.
Either way will get you down the track, but only one can be dialed down while staging, well that is unless you want multi switches, relays, and wiring headaches, something that looks like it belongs in the space shuttle.

Back on topic,,, FJO mini controller kws0022 is a dual stage system with a built in tps input. You could make act like a window switch if your want.

Pick your poison and have fun.

Ricky

sidewayz28

iTrader: (24)

im going to be running a NOS mini 2 stage progressive, its just like a WOT/TPS switch but with a built in progressive controller and you control it with a tiny hand held

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Misinformation my ***. Progressive controllers have been around for many, many years. It's just been lately that so many companys have joined in and offered progressive units. There is a reason that progressive controllers have never caught on, "IT BEATS THE HELL OUT OF THE NOIDS", period end of story.

Well, with the multi stage controllers with a TPS included have made the necessity of multiple window sws and the such, obsolete. It's all contained in one unit these days for the most part.

For who ever wants to run a progressive, be my guest, it makes no matter to me, however, it may make a difference to your wallet at some time.

When I set up my multi stage I went with what was known to be more reliable. Try getting over 200 passes with no problems on a progessive, without rebuilding and/or attending to your noids on a regular basis. This is the reason the serious racers DO NOT run progressives: failure of a noid at any time. Now if your just a casual user like Macon (badassfast) then a progressive may fit your bill fine. It's something to consider though. Check out all the big dogs on this site, most all run a multi stage if needed.
Robert

Beer99C5

iTrader: (21)

If and when I finally get my system done...I will probably go progressive as well...

I love the fjo software for controlling the unit, great flexibility

BadAssFast, I finally got COS 5 to work to pull timing...ran into fuel pump issues though, my new racetronics pump and hotwire kit does not like 100% TP as it drops to 35 PSI ...I am hoping its something easy like a fuel filter.

860 Performance

iTrader: (1)

As far as the noids getting beat, that was definetly true when they used teflon pistons. They whould need replacing often. The new materials used handle the pulsing much better. I have yet to see an NX noid fail from pulsing.

I still don't run one though, I'd rather multi-stages. I found they are not a wire-up and go. They requires lots of tuning just like everything else to ensure the A/f stays clean during the pulsing. My advise is if you decide to go with one make sure its a 2 channel so you can control fuel and N20 seperatly.
Vinny

SmaknaSS

iTrader: (1)

I have had good results on my progressive controller. I use it a couple of times a week and have no problems so far. I'm not so worried about beating the hell out of the noids due to so few moving parts in the noids. I just keep checking them from time to time, But thats just me.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Great points. Yea, I also opted to go with the NX Stage 6 noids, the best offered these days, imo.
Robert

myfast70

iTrader: (38)

Well, with all of this talk about progessive controller's and noids what's your take on everything? Do you see more issues with lightning solenoids on progressive's? Do this affect or void warranty on them? What does your warranty cover? I'm sorry to grill you with these questions, but the answers may help some people decide which way to go. Especially when the hear it from a rep as yourself.

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

Not to answer for Ricky, but NX has a lifetime warrany on all noids. So, this is not an issue. The new noids as Vince stated do have a new material compared to old, and yes it's better so should hold up better. what you need to do is match up the noid freq in the FJO set-up for correct pulsing to make them last and work longer.

One thing further, and not directed at Ricky, as he is a stand up guy for sure. let's say you go to the Chevy dealer to buy a car, do you think the salesman is going to point out the negatives of his product, and possibly turn you away from a sales or interest. Do you see where I am going? This is not directed at NX either as they have some of the finest products on the market. Just trying to show a point of view that we may not get from the factory guys, and I am sure they believe in there products, so...
Robert

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

One thing further, and not directed at Ricky, as he is a stand up guy for sure. let's say you go to the Chevy dealer to buy a car, do you think the salesman is going to point out the negatives of his product, and possibly turn you away from a sales or interest. Do you see where I am going? This is not directed at NX either as they have some of the finest products on the market. Just trying to show a point of view that we may not get from the factory guys, and I am sure they believe in there products, so...
Robert[/QUOTE]

lol,
No it just comes down to some people base there opinions off of what they like best for them selfs. Then some people are just not as knowledgeable as others there for haveing a narrow view on factual information. In some cases some people talk a big talk and should not be giving out technical advice on somethings as well.

On the other hand some people have tried it all. Actually work and warrenty out products and personaly see the advantages and disadvantages of different options. Some people like to help others buy figuring out what best fits there needs and understand what may be good for one may not be the best option for the next.

None of this is based at anyone individual. I just seen the post and had to respond to that remark.
Dave

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Ok every ones needs and goals should be looked at individualy in order to get a accurate answer.

First lets start here.

3/4 of a drag race is in the first 60 foot. With that been said the more you can spray out of the hole and hook it the better. If you are only spraying a 150 to 200 shot and are hooking with no problems I would say spend the money somewhere else. If it is not hooking you may need to look at tires and suspension.

Now here is the problem here on these boards. Everyone says look at so and so and .... do what they do... etc. Well so and so's abilities and set up is probley completly different than yours so why do what they are doing?

Use the big boys for example.
The big boys are spraying much larger amounts of nitrous than the average Street/track car. With that been said should the same advice go to both sides. In most cases the answer is NO.

Ok so my advice in this post are going to be aimed at the guys that mostly make up 99.9 percent of the population off this board.

For the average guy running what I call a average set up running multiple stages for a car that runs mid 10s or higher is just over complicating your set up. I personally believe in keeping it simple. The simplier it is the less area for failure or complications.

I am going to use Tony Shepards car for example. (hope you do not mind Tony) Tony bought his car in 1994 while he was in Highschool and it has had many different set ups on it through out time. Tonys car started as a daily driver running 13 second time slips just like any other car. Last time out his car ran the best of a 9.7. Now the car has been completly re worked with a new goal of a 8 second time slip.

As his needs and abilities progressed he changed things up to best suit his combination.

Tony started off with a single stage system and then went to a dual stage later on when he added to the amount of juice he was throwing at it. Now the car currently has a single stage with a progressive on it.(With results comming very soon )


The last time He took the car out was for Thunders race in Lousinia. The car was dual staged with the hopes of hitting a 300 shot.The car made about 450 or so NA. Due to blowing the through the convertor the best we could pick up was alittle under 250 hp no matter how much nitrous we pushed to it.

Anyways back in the day Tony played around on the streets just as much as he did on the track. At the time there were no Progressive controllers that offered a RPM ramp that would be great for hitting it from a roll. So the dual stage was the best for his needs at the time. With the dual stage he could hit it from a roll or a dig with the option to use the second stage or not and it also delayed out the 2nd stage hit to help aid traction. A RPM ramp progressive controller would have done the same thing with a few differences between the two options.

Here they are.
With the dual stage you have the option of hitting the second stage or not. You also have the option of bringing it in at different times. With a RPM ramp progressive you do not have the option of changing the time of when the hp comes in or the amount of spray while making a pass.

With using a dual stage the nitrous can not be tuned so that the power comes in more smooth and gradual like with a progressive controller. With the prgressive controller you have alot more tunibilty however it takes knowing the car and how it reacts.

If the technology was as great as it is now Tony could have accomplished everything he was doing with two systems with one.
The advantage he would have had would be less parts to maintnence and closer tunibility...

Now here is the kicker. Tony was at the cross roads of possibly adding a third stage to split the amount of nitrous he was wanting to throw at it. This way the nitrous would come in more gradualy through out the pass. Many of the guys that I know that use to run multiple stages have now went to two stages with a progressive on the main stage. The second stage is simply there for insurance reasons. Most every pass is actually ran and tuned with a single stage and the progressive. If they end up needing a extra boost for winning reasons they will bump the second stage.

Now they have the best of both worlds and have got away from having 3 and 4 systems on the car. Remember what I said about keeping it simple.
Buy doing this there is less over all amp draw on the car and less parts to malfuction.

Over the last few years the technology, fuctions, amp loads, and programability of certain progressive controllers have advanced a great deal. In the past they could not offer near the abilities in programing as some of the ones on the market today. Up until last year there was not one progressive controller on the market that offered a RPM ramp feature. They were all time based. Up until about three years ago there was not a inexpensive controller any cheaper than 640.00 that could handle the amp load of the stronger solenoids.

Now you can find a great progressive controller with just about every feature the average end user needs for in the 200 dollar range. So now that price is not the problem lets talk pros and cons of a progressive controller as far as solenoid abuse.

Is a progressive harder on the solenoids? Ofcourse it works by opening and closing the solenoids very fast. Depending on the ramp you program it will open and close the solenoids many times per second.

This is why we suggest running a good quality solenoid with a good strong coil and well built piston when using a progressive controller. To be honest with you you should be using a solenoid like this anyways if you want dependability. With a poorly built solnoid the continues opening and closing can ruin the piston and or weken the coil. Eeven with a really good solenoid the piston can develope a nipple in it. It may happen quicker with the progressive controller. If the piston were to develope a nipple it may leak or stick closed. Odds are it would leak.

Is this something that is going to happen quickly? No. With just checking the solenoids atleast once a year you could prevent any problems from the solenoid leaking does to piston wear and tear.

Maintence should be done on a nitrous system weather you are using a progressive controller or not. However when using a progressive controller it should be done more often. This is why we have no problem actually educating our customers on how to check there solenoids for wear and tear. Or doing it for them.

I would personaly look at what your needs are. then seek someone that would be willing to give you factual information with pros and cons. If anyone tells you that one way is the best and never even ask you about your set up, your abilities or your needs seek someone else... Everyones needs, and abilities will differ..

Now that I have rambled on. I hope something good came out of this post.
Dave

Robert56

iTrader: (2)

And some vendors have biased opinions based on the all mighty $$, and not formed from an unbiased opinion that is not based on $$ or upsetting their suppliers, or did the un-named vendor also invent the progressive controller. I ran NOS progressive controllers probably before some of the young vendors even had an awareness of nitrous, and they allways "Beat the Hell out of the Noids". You could expect a noid failure at anytime, and usually the wrong time.

Furthermore, I never said that they can't produce the results implied, or were not a viable product. Man here we go again, and I am not even with ND anymore. How is it one guy can be such a challenge to you guys, it's behond me.

I didn't even read your next long drawn out post, trying to convince yourself that somehow your the only one with an opinion that counts. I'll save the response for that for tomorrow. gheeez, here we go again, if ya really had read all the stuff you would see that I also stated that it would be fine for some.
Robert

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Robert, Easy there buddy. Looks like you took my post as being aimed at you.... It was not aimed at you. I was just simply sharing my another perspective on the same conversation. I only quoted you do to the fact I was responding to the same conversation your were remarking were towards. Breath deep.lol


As far as any vender looking at dollar value as a reason for preference. Thast just stupid... If that was the case trust me they would never sell a FJO progressive controller and would push as many stages as possible towards the customer. We sell a average of 30 to 50 FJO minis a month year round. Sometimes more. I can tell you that there is absulutly no profit margin at all in stocking the FJO product line. As a matter of fact our dealers get nothing off FJO progressive controllers. If I could find a better product I would drop the FJO product in a heart beat just for the fact that I keep so much money tied up in there invatory and the store does not make jack off of it. We simply stock and sell the FJO progressives because the best product on the market..

99Silverado5.3

iTrader: (7)

Well put Dave. I love my progressive . I may end up doing a dual stage and have that extra "boost" like Dave stated above.

Nitro Dave's Nitrous Outlet

iTrader: (25)

Robert,
Last night when I made my post it was late. After seeing how you reacted to my post I decided to get a second opinion from a third party on how my post read. So I asked both Chris and Ray this morning to read this post and give me a honest view.
They both said because of the fact that I responded to your post with a complete oposite point of view and the way it was worded it made it seem like my post was secretly aimed towards you.

So I would like to clear it up by saying one more time it was not aimed at you.
I was simply giving another point of view on the same conversation.

My responce was into regards of the sales man you used for example.
I personally feel that 99.9 percent of the time when one sided advice is given in the nitrous market it is simply because the individual or company giving that advice just simply does not have the knowledge on anything but what they have tried themselfs. Therefore not being able to look outside the box enough to realize that there are other options that may better suit a different individuals needs than just the one thing the salesman or individual has experience with.

Hope that clears up my attentions....
Dave