Read this..It may save your horse power life!
07-08-2005, 01:21 AM
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Read this..It may save your horse power life! Just wanted something catchy 
Ok...so, I'v been on the side lines for a while just reading and posting as I see fit, not wanting to rock your horse power world as you guys see it...
Sense Ellis was on a
I figured why not me...
As the story goes, I met Ellis the first time at a dyno day (Promax). My first real chance to meet people from CZ28, including one STEPHEN guy from Canada. I remember getting blown off trying to talk with him about his 396 LT1 storker. He had just put down 378 SAE RWHP with full length headers , 306 comp cam (230/244) and DFI that took out the MAF as a restriction. along with open air filter. Anywho, my car came on the dyno all quiet (baby cam) with shorty SLP headers, MAF and air filter all still together. Well, now when I did 385 people were in amazement and low and behold Stephen couldn't ask enough questions...Ellis was pretty cool with his stuff, but going there was an eye opener as to how people thought there cars were the ****....I myself have been racing and building one hell of a lot faster cars then these for years...I have sense helped build or chose the cams for numerous race cars along with LT1/LS1, with people still wondering why I don't go cam crazy on certain engines. Hint...average hp is the game not this BS peak bull **** that dyno racers so love...OK back to where I was at...those were the days that I had to pay people like MTI or The Turbo Shop (in Comptan) to tune the engines for the then Miracle LT1. I remember easily spending over $1500 in tunes on my different combos. I raced for several years as a manual then got tired of cluthces not holding, installed a 12 bolt strange rear end along the way so, Me and Ryan converted my Lt1 car to auto and Ellis built the tranny. Then around the same time (1998, 1999), Ellis and I got the Beta testing for LT1 Edit...I remember all the problems we went through and lots of bugs. But, finally we got them to work pretty good....Then took my car to the track and another bug in OBDI was not shifting in to second at WOT for cars turning faster then about 1.7 sixty foot....After several attemps and no solution we converted my car to OBDII, retuned it and no shift problem had occured sense then. We then met Ryan and he joined NW f-body and after several years he went crazy and built his 9 sec f body, he had sense aquired LS1 edit, so I got a lot of tuning on this program along with changing cams, heads and engines with his LS1 stuff...maybe more then you could imagine
So, here's the point/moral of this story...I have been around/built way faster cars then we run here and have been working on hot rods sense I was 8 years old, I know Ellis used to run a 10second hot rod in his early days...SO, otherwords the hp we are making on the LT1's/LS1's insn't know were near a a lot to me....period...These are very nice cars that can go pretty quick (for a street car), and as such, there is no way you should treat them any different...So, enough of the "My car is a race car BS" these car should idle ok..run good even into th 10's and my real test is you should be able to throw your MOM the keys and it should get here down to the store..no problems....No dieing...Rattling on floorboards...Pinging...Open Exhaust or anything that make these cars suck....So, if you wonder why this old fat guy just looks at ya when your talking all this horse power or tuning issues (thinks you lost it by putting on an engine plate), you'll know where these answers come from. "It's the I'v done everything with these cars 5 years ago syndrome." I and Ellis love making everybodies cars go faster weather that be tuning, combos that work and ones that don't (and I have sure seen my share of them). You guys need to realize how lucky you are to have people like Ellis and Ryan work and tune your cars and tell you what you will need to make power...I wish we had that info when we first started out on LT1 stuff years ago. So, use it don't abuse it
This info was to let people know more, of where some of the info comes from and to let some here understand..If you get work PAY....If you ask questions hold on for the answers (even if you don't agree or like them), if you think you know it all about these cars...you don't (..I'm still learning after all these years)...If you think your a race car or a race car driver...your not....so, get over it and stop being pissy...work,,,,work,,,work is the answer....
Jimbob
Ok...so, I'v been on the side lines for a while just reading and posting as I see fit, not wanting to rock your horse power world as you guys see it...
Sense Ellis was on a
I figured why not me...As the story goes, I met Ellis the first time at a dyno day (Promax). My first real chance to meet people from CZ28, including one STEPHEN guy from Canada. I remember getting blown off trying to talk with him about his 396 LT1 storker. He had just put down 378 SAE RWHP with full length headers , 306 comp cam (230/244) and DFI that took out the MAF as a restriction. along with open air filter. Anywho, my car came on the dyno all quiet (baby cam) with shorty SLP headers, MAF and air filter all still together. Well, now when I did 385 people were in amazement and low and behold Stephen couldn't ask enough questions...Ellis was pretty cool with his stuff, but going there was an eye opener as to how people thought there cars were the ****....I myself have been racing and building one hell of a lot faster cars then these for years...I have sense helped build or chose the cams for numerous race cars along with LT1/LS1, with people still wondering why I don't go cam crazy on certain engines. Hint...average hp is the game not this BS peak bull **** that dyno racers so love...OK back to where I was at...those were the days that I had to pay people like MTI or The Turbo Shop (in Comptan) to tune the engines for the then Miracle LT1. I remember easily spending over $1500 in tunes on my different combos. I raced for several years as a manual then got tired of cluthces not holding, installed a 12 bolt strange rear end along the way so, Me and Ryan converted my Lt1 car to auto and Ellis built the tranny. Then around the same time (1998, 1999), Ellis and I got the Beta testing for LT1 Edit...I remember all the problems we went through and lots of bugs. But, finally we got them to work pretty good....Then took my car to the track and another bug in OBDI was not shifting in to second at WOT for cars turning faster then about 1.7 sixty foot....After several attemps and no solution we converted my car to OBDII, retuned it and no shift problem had occured sense then. We then met Ryan and he joined NW f-body and after several years he went crazy and built his 9 sec f body, he had sense aquired LS1 edit, so I got a lot of tuning on this program along with changing cams, heads and engines with his LS1 stuff...maybe more then you could imagine
So, here's the point/moral of this story...I have been around/built way faster cars then we run here and have been working on hot rods sense I was 8 years old, I know Ellis used to run a 10second hot rod in his early days...SO, otherwords the hp we are making on the LT1's/LS1's insn't know were near a a lot to me....period...These are very nice cars that can go pretty quick (for a street car), and as such, there is no way you should treat them any different...So, enough of the "My car is a race car BS" these car should idle ok..run good even into th 10's and my real test is you should be able to throw your MOM the keys and it should get here down to the store..no problems....No dieing...Rattling on floorboards...Pinging...Open Exhaust or anything that make these cars suck....So, if you wonder why this old fat guy just looks at ya when your talking all this horse power or tuning issues (thinks you lost it by putting on an engine plate), you'll know where these answers come from. "It's the I'v done everything with these cars 5 years ago syndrome." I and Ellis love making everybodies cars go faster weather that be tuning, combos that work and ones that don't (and I have sure seen my share of them). You guys need to realize how lucky you are to have people like Ellis and Ryan work and tune your cars and tell you what you will need to make power...I wish we had that info when we first started out on LT1 stuff years ago. So, use it don't abuse it
This info was to let people know more, of where some of the info comes from and to let some here understand..If you get work PAY....If you ask questions hold on for the answers (even if you don't agree or like them), if you think you know it all about these cars...you don't (..I'm still learning after all these years)...If you think your a race car or a race car driver...your not....so, get over it and stop being pissy...work,,,,work,,,work is the answer....
Jimbob
07-08-2005, 02:19 AM
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Somehow i see a whole lot of this post aimed at me...but to each their own.
Don't claim to have a race car. Just a fun daily driver til my racecar gets done and there are a lot more things going on this car to make it faster regardless. And im still building the camaro and have encountered problems, like everyone does. Just a few things to get fixed and it will be very pleasant to drive.
But i do understand exactly where you're coming from. let the jarring begin.
Nate
Don't claim to have a race car. Just a fun daily driver til my racecar gets done and there are a lot more things going on this car to make it faster regardless. And im still building the camaro and have encountered problems, like everyone does. Just a few things to get fixed and it will be very pleasant to drive.
But i do understand exactly where you're coming from. let the jarring begin.
Nate
07-08-2005, 02:49 AM
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"taufern"
Actually, this was more of where we get our info thing....There are a lot of people on here that make there car more undriveable than it needs to be...Tuning is the biggest problem...Not "motor plate." (and that was just my opinion), these tuning/mod questions need to come from some where...I wanted to let all understand mine other others advice...Since, I have never really lintroduced myself, I figuered this would give answers to the WERE IN THE HELL DOES THIS GUY GET OFF.....I mean, I would think it, if I did not know someones back ground...Especially the tuning/horse power thing...I however, am way past putting expensive parts in just because (and that's why I mentioned motor plate)....The race car is not even aimed at you...I would not consider a car "a race car" just becuase some one says so (I don't know your combo so, I can not speak for it)....I'm however, talking about the general driveavility issues and what people are willing to live with because they think a race car has them.....Maybe a race car does but ours doesn't...and used your example of having exhaust rattling (which you fixed), becuase I have seen people actually live with that crap and can't figure out why there power is down. All my comets here are almost always how to make you faster...I always like see someone go faster, no matter what they drive car/truck or make/model. "I just LOVE this horse power crap and what can be done with engines"........Now if I only had one....
jimbob
Actually, this was more of where we get our info thing....There are a lot of people on here that make there car more undriveable than it needs to be...Tuning is the biggest problem...Not "motor plate." (and that was just my opinion), these tuning/mod questions need to come from some where...I wanted to let all understand mine other others advice...Since, I have never really lintroduced myself, I figuered this would give answers to the WERE IN THE HELL DOES THIS GUY GET OFF.....I mean, I would think it, if I did not know someones back ground...Especially the tuning/horse power thing...I however, am way past putting expensive parts in just because (and that's why I mentioned motor plate)....The race car is not even aimed at you...I would not consider a car "a race car" just becuase some one says so (I don't know your combo so, I can not speak for it)....I'm however, talking about the general driveavility issues and what people are willing to live with because they think a race car has them.....Maybe a race car does but ours doesn't...and used your example of having exhaust rattling (which you fixed), becuase I have seen people actually live with that crap and can't figure out why there power is down. All my comets here are almost always how to make you faster...I always like see someone go faster, no matter what they drive car/truck or make/model.
"I just LOVE this horse power crap and what can be done with engines"........Now if I only had one....jimbob
Last edited by jimbob; 07-08-2005 at 02:57 AM.
07-08-2005, 02:53 AM
#4
Originally Posted by jimbob
"taufern"
Actually, this was more of where we get our info thing....There are a lot of people on here that make there car more undriveable than it needs to be...Tuning is the biggest problem...Not "motor plate." (and that was just my opinion), these tuning/mod questions need to come from some where...I wanted to let all understand mine other others advice...Since, I have never really lintroduced myself, I figuered this would give answers to the WERE IN THE HELL DOES THIS GUY GET OFF.....I mean, I would think it, if I did not know someones back ground...Especially the tuning/horse power thing...I however, am way past putting expensive parts in just because (and that's why I mentioned motor plate)....The race car is not even aimed at you...I would not consider a car "a race car" just becuase some one says so (I don't know your combo so, I can not speak for it)....I'm however, talking about the general driveavility issues and what people are willing to live with because they think a race car has them.....Maybe a race car does but ours doesn't...and used your example of having exhaust rattling (which you fixed), becuase I have seen people actually live with that crap and can't figure out why there power is down. All my comets here are almost always how to make you faster...I always like see someone go faster no matter what they drive car/truck or make/model.
jimbob
Actually, this was more of where we get our info thing....There are a lot of people on here that make there car more undriveable than it needs to be...Tuning is the biggest problem...Not "motor plate." (and that was just my opinion), these tuning/mod questions need to come from some where...I wanted to let all understand mine other others advice...Since, I have never really lintroduced myself, I figuered this would give answers to the WERE IN THE HELL DOES THIS GUY GET OFF.....I mean, I would think it, if I did not know someones back ground...Especially the tuning/horse power thing...I however, am way past putting expensive parts in just because (and that's why I mentioned motor plate)....The race car is not even aimed at you...I would not consider a car "a race car" just becuase some one says so (I don't know your combo so, I can not speak for it)....I'm however, talking about the general driveavility issues and what people are willing to live with because they think a race car has them.....Maybe a race car does but ours doesn't...and used your example of having exhaust rattling (which you fixed), becuase I have seen people actually live with that crap and can't figure out why there power is down. All my comets here are almost always how to make you faster...I always like see someone go faster no matter what they drive car/truck or make/model.
jimbob
Makes a little more sense now, actually I'm with you, but if someone wants to run open headers and ET streets on there commute vehical who are we to tell him he's wrong... Just like he may think we are crazy for putting chrome ***** on our AC controls
07-08-2005, 03:08 AM
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93TAWicked1
Sorry, about the not making to much sence originally. I guess I should have read it before hitting enter....See my version of a race car, is something that idles at 1500 to 2000 rpm with durations over 260 @.050. It really means just that....you can only go down the strip....and it better be faster then 10 flat...I have helped a few of Ford guys get thier Turboed stangs to run over 140 trap speed and the nines easily. All while being very driveable...as such with fuel injection and great timing control these cars should run very good. and No, I am not old school how ever i have worked on two 540 strokers latley. I need a bath
Oh yeah, and forgot to say that yes the LS1 is a kick *** 15 degree engine(bastards)...but that you can make anything go fast if you know what your doing..I like the challenge of making my LT1 based engines go fast, and they do.....3rd gen...well were still working on them
looks like the SR is the way to make bigg power...
Jimbob (hope I haven't lost anybody except myself)
Sorry, about the not making to much sence originally. I guess I should have read it before hitting enter....See my version of a race car, is something that idles at 1500 to 2000 rpm with durations over 260 @.050. It really means just that....you can only go down the strip....and it better be faster then 10 flat...I have helped a few of Ford guys get thier Turboed stangs to run over 140 trap speed and the nines easily. All while being very driveable...as such with fuel injection and great timing control these cars should run very good. and No, I am not old school how ever i have worked on two 540 strokers latley. I need a bath
Oh yeah, and forgot to say that yes the LS1 is a kick *** 15 degree engine(bastards)...but that you can make anything go fast if you know what your doing..I like the challenge of making my LT1 based engines go fast, and they do.....3rd gen...well were still working on them
looks like the SR is the way to make bigg power...Jimbob (hope I haven't lost anybody except myself)
Last edited by jimbob; 07-08-2005 at 03:17 AM.
07-08-2005, 03:28 AM
#6
LOL that is why I deleted my response I took your post entirely wrong and my response didn't make sense 
Kind of came from an argument I had with a guy at work who said his friends 460whp STI was MUCH MUCH more car then mine, also insinuating that the STI is a better platform. I hate getting dragged into those conversations..
I love the LT1 and if I could do it all over again I would have kept the 93 and installed the S-trim, forged slugs, and Street twin I had in my garage..oh well I guess I'll just have to stick with my ole Z06
My dad told me when I was a little kid you can make any car go fast with enough money even a Ford
Kind of came from an argument I had with a guy at work who said his friends 460whp STI was MUCH MUCH more car then mine, also insinuating that the STI is a better platform. I hate getting dragged into those conversations..I love the LT1 and if I could do it all over again I would have kept the 93 and installed the S-trim, forged slugs, and Street twin I had in my garage..oh well I guess I'll just have to stick with my ole Z06
My dad told me when I was a little kid you can make any car go fast with enough money even a Ford
07-08-2005, 03:41 AM
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This may sound stupid but what is a STI? I guess I'm a little out of it on that one Yep, I fill the same way about every combo...always want to make it faster...We even had an import guy racing for our team years ago...ran something like high 12's low 13's (learned a little about the imports from him)....I guess the point I'm making is that every car no matter what should be respected. A lot of friggin sweat goes into cars.....So, I hate it when somebody says there car is better because....and what's funny is most don't take in to consideration horsepower to weight ratio anyways..."Example....We probably got Cory's H2 up to 600 flywheel now, but since it can only go 14's. Most don't realize the amount of work needed to go that fast at 6800 lb and the ungodley amount of hours needed to tune this thing"...So, to them it means nothing or is just cool...put that thing in something a little lighter and it would fly pretty good.... So, if this STI is heavier it may be slower anyways with more hp, but most don't think that far...and that's pretty 
Jimbob
Yep, I fill the same way about every combo...always want to make it faster...We even had an import guy racing for our team years ago...ran something like high 12's low 13's (learned a little about the imports from him)....I guess the point I'm making is that every car no matter what should be respected. A lot of friggin sweat goes into cars.....So, I hate it when somebody says there car is better because....and what's funny is most don't take in to consideration horsepower to weight ratio anyways..."Example....We probably got Cory's H2 up to 600 flywheel now, but since it can only go 14's. Most don't realize the amount of work needed to go that fast at 6800 lb and the ungodley amount of hours needed to tune this thing"...So, to them it means nothing or is just cool...put that thing in something a little lighter and it would fly pretty good.... So, if this STI is heavier it may be slower anyways with more hp, but most don't think that far...and that's pretty Jimbob
Last edited by jimbob; 07-08-2005 at 04:10 AM.
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07-08-2005, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by jimbob
This may sound stupid but what is a STI? I guess I'm a little out of it on that one Yep, I fill the same way about every combo...always want to make it faster...We even had an import guy racing for our team years ago...ran something like high 12's low 13's (learned a little about the imports from him)....I guess the point I'm making is that every car no matter what should be respected. A lot of friggin sweat goes into cars.....So, I hate it when somebody says there car is better because....and what's funny is most don't take in to consideration horsepower to weight ratio anyways..."Example....We probably got Cory's H2 up to 600 flywheel now, but since it can only go 14's. Most don't realize the amount of work needed to go that fast at 6800 lb and the ungodley amount of hours needed to tune this thing"...So, to them it means nothing or is just cool...put that thing in something a little lighter and it would fly pretty good.... So, if this STI is heavier it may be slower anyways with more hp, but most don't think that far...and that's pretty
Jimbob
Yep, I fill the same way about every combo...always want to make it faster...We even had an import guy racing for our team years ago...ran something like high 12's low 13's (learned a little about the imports from him)....I guess the point I'm making is that every car no matter what should be respected. A lot of friggin sweat goes into cars.....So, I hate it when somebody says there car is better because....and what's funny is most don't take in to consideration horsepower to weight ratio anyways..."Example....We probably got Cory's H2 up to 600 flywheel now, but since it can only go 14's. Most don't realize the amount of work needed to go that fast at 6800 lb and the ungodley amount of hours needed to tune this thing"...So, to them it means nothing or is just cool...put that thing in something a little lighter and it would fly pretty good.... So, if this STI is heavier it may be slower anyways with more hp, but most don't think that far...and that's pretty Jimbob
STI is built by subaru. It's kind of the premier model wrx (awd rally car type) and runs 15+ lbs of boost instead of the wrx's 13 and im pretty sure it has a 2.5 liter instead of a 2 liter. They are heavy pigs though and outweigh our cars even. They can be identified by their ugly ugly rims (gold) and they have "STI" written in big gay pink letters across the seats and on the side front fender. They run 13.5's stock with a good driver and can dip into the 12's with a limited amount of money.
But after that, it's aftermarket everything including turbo and fmic and all that stuff...so you wont see too many real fast ones.
Nate
07-08-2005, 11:53 AM
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The beauty of this site is the experienced guys sharing.
I have tried to listen to Ellis, Mark & others and so far have been very happy. The only thing I have done twice is the exhaust. I was trying to go cheap instead buying what I really wanted the first time. The more I work on my car the more I think I should stay at the office try to close a deal and pay a pro like Ellis do it, but I have enjoyed working on my car even if it takes me an entire weekend to do what a pro could do in a hour.
Bobby nice to so you post I was begining to wonder if marriage was changing you.
I have tried to listen to Ellis, Mark & others and so far have been very happy. The only thing I have done twice is the exhaust. I was trying to go cheap instead buying what I really wanted the first time. The more I work on my car the more I think I should stay at the office try to close a deal and pay a pro like Ellis do it, but I have enjoyed working on my car even if it takes me an entire weekend to do what a pro could do in a hour.
Bobby nice to so you post I was begining to wonder if marriage was changing you.
07-08-2005, 11:58 AM
#11
Originally Posted by Steve Goodwin
The beauty of this site is the experienced guys sharing.
I have tried to listen to Ellis, Mark & others and so far have been very happy. The only thing I have done twice is the exhaust. I was trying to go cheap instead buying what I really wanted the first time. The more I work on my car the more I think I should stay at the office try to close a deal and pay a pro like Ellis do it, but I have enjoyed working on my car even if it takes me an entire weekend to do what a pro could do in a hour.
Bobby nice to so you post I was begining to wonder if marriage was changing you.
I have tried to listen to Ellis, Mark & others and so far have been very happy. The only thing I have done twice is the exhaust. I was trying to go cheap instead buying what I really wanted the first time. The more I work on my car the more I think I should stay at the office try to close a deal and pay a pro like Ellis do it, but I have enjoyed working on my car even if it takes me an entire weekend to do what a pro could do in a hour.
Bobby nice to so you post I was begining to wonder if marriage was changing you.
07-08-2005, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jimbob
Just wanted something catchy
You guys need to realize how lucky you are to have people like Ellis and Ryan work and tune your cars and tell you what you will need to make power...I wish we had that info when we first started out on LT1 stuff years ago. So, use it don't abuse it
Jimbob
You guys need to realize how lucky you are to have people like Ellis and Ryan work and tune your cars and tell you what you will need to make power...I wish we had that info when we first started out on LT1 stuff years ago. So, use it don't abuse it
Jimbob
" I learned so much **** from the two of you it wasn't even funny. Hopefully this thread will knock some people off their imaginary pedestal
07-08-2005, 12:20 PM
#14
Originally Posted by LT1Factor
I agree with you too Jimbob, I do realize how nice it is having you guys around. Especially Ellis being so close. When Ellis was working on my car and I was over there "helping " I learned so much **** from the two of you it wasn't even funny.
Hopefully this thread will knock some people off their imaginary pedestal
" I learned so much **** from the two of you it wasn't even funny. Hopefully this thread will knock some people off their imaginary pedestal
This WAS part of my original post... I have gotten a lot of information from this forum and in the NW forum Chris, Mark, Todd, Boyce, Mike, Ellis, Eric, Jason etc etc etc have valuable help as well. Ellis is a valuable resource in this forum but he is not always right because there is not always right and wrong answers. I have read some of his posts and not agreed with them, doesn't mean he is wrong (although he might say I'm wrong
) and doesn't mean I'm a pedastal.Sometimes the people need to learn things on there own. Maybe somebody just wants that solid motor mounts and rod ends even he is not getting the most out of his money. and if your new to the game its hard to sort the BS from the good stuff so you can't blame a guy for being a little close minded
I've wasted alot of money over the years I had more money into the 93 than most and it is still a mid 12 second car. Aside from R & R the tranny 20 times I enjoyed every second of it.
Maybe there is some local crap going on up there but I don't see any pedastals around here.
07-08-2005, 12:21 PM
#15
Originally Posted by Steve Goodwin
Planning a wedding I feel for you, but for her picking out flowers is liking picking a cam right 
Whatever I just hate the fact that I have to listen to all that crap and my opinion means absolutely nothing. If you say you don't like something she does then your stupid. We had a little talk though and she's been alot better, just stressed out its coming up fast!
07-08-2005, 12:41 PM
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Sorry 93TAWicked1, didnt mean anyone in here was on a pedestal, I just know of people that are. It was not directed at you at all my friend. I agree with you also that sometimes there are no right and wrongs, sometimes its just a matter of opinion....or whatever it is