I got a speeding ticket back in July and today was my court date. The cop originally said that he was pacing me but he wasn't doing so, cause I watched him role up on me from over 200 feet away. So today I told the judge that he wasn't even close to pacing me and he also didn't show up either. Also, in the report, he stated what the speed limit was and later he stated what speed he was doing and he admits that he was also speeding before he came to pull me over. Anyway I still don't have any speeding tickets and I've owned Camaros since I was 19.

 

Right on. It always confounds me that a cop will commit fellony purgery in order to get a misdominor conviction.

 

Boy did you luck out!

I went to Court to get a ticket defered and one of the first things the Judge said was 'that a cop won't tell a lie because he would be putting his job on the line'..

Well, that just said that anyone there to fight their tickets was just basically called a liar if they were going to go against a cop. I didn't see anyone there get out of a ticket that day...but a few of us got defered.

Don't get a ticket in Snohomish County!

 

Just curious, how fast were you going (or did he write you for)? Cuz I have paced people from WAY further back then 200 feet. On the freeway or highway, 200 feet is way too close to pace someone so of course I would be going faster then that person when they saw me, cuz I was trying to overtake them, which means I would have to drive faster than they are to do so. It is mighty hard to pace someone when you are so close that they can easily see you (like 200 feet or closer)........especially in a fully marked cruiser. As for him speeding "already" how do you expect them to catch up to speeders if they don't speed?

Not trying to beef with you, just pointing out that 200 feet is way too close for a highway or freeway pace......in town, it would depend on time of day, amount of traffic, etc. Cuz if you had seen him before he was overtaking you, chances are you would have slowed down to the speed limit (or at least I would have).
The cop didn't go to court, exactly how did he commit "felony perjury" dude? Not too mention that I see nothing in what the OP said where the cop lied. The definition of perjury, legal and otherwise, is to lie under oath......if he wasn't in court, he couldn't have taken an oath.

 

How can you accurately pace somebody if you are 'way' further back than 200 feet? How far is 'way'? Over an eighth mile? A quarter mile? Speeds could vary by well over 10-15mph if you're farther than a quarter mile away and eyesight has to come into play as well. Do you use radar to do so?

I enjoy playing devils advocate with you Darrin.

 

I know ya do Rick, I enjoy it as well......so consider this, a mile is over 5000 feet (5280 feet give or take). So 200 feet of that is what, 1/25 of a mile? Not exactly far away.......1/4 - 1/2 mile is easy pacing distance on the freeway/highway. It doesn't take much to match a person's speed and look down at your own speedo, then check it again a few more times over the next bit of distance and zoom, you have a paced speed.

You can use radar if you have the proper setup for it, some radar is stationary only, some is mobile, some both.......but if that was the case here, I think he would have said, "I got you on radar", not "I paced you". :shrug:

For reference, at a mere 60 MPH, you are covering approx 88 feet per second.......above that you cover more ground even faster, so 200 feet is basically nothing. Less then 2 seconds behind someone doing only 70 MPH. So in this case, the OP "saw the cop role up on him from over 200 feet back". That means, best case scenario (travelling at 60) that he saw the cop 2.5 seconds before the cop reached his rear bumper.........in other words, he didn't see the cop until he was up his *** and it was way too late.

 

So you're telling me that a half mile away is easy to pace somebody? At the track when I'm at the starting line and two cars are going through the traps, one of them is a second faster than the other. I can't tell who's in the lead until they light up the win light in that lane and I have 20/05 vision. They are usually going well over 90mph too. Double that for a half mile and there's no way in hell you can accurately pace somebody from that distance unless radar comes into play.

So at 60 mph @ 88 fps and a half mile away there is 2640 feet. So it would take 30 seconds to cover that distance at legal speeds. That's the very end of the dragstrip from the starting line at the big sweeping turnaround. That driver is a spec on the road at that distance, there's no way I believe at a distance of a half mile a person can accurately be paced. His speed could bounce up and down over 20 mph and you couldn't visually tell.

Just my opinion of course.

And, I still owe you lunch at Hooters, if memory serves. We'll have to set that up in the near future.

 

So, how do you account for varrying distance between you and the the guy you are pacing? Unless you are following the guy for an extended period of time your Pace could be overtaking his pace. So here is the real question, A man is traveling down the freeway at 70 mph (5 over) An officer is traveling at 75 mph, the officer "paces" the dude for 1 minute, At the start of the minute, he was 1/4 mile off the guys ***. At the end of the minute he is 880 ft way. In your judgement you could be the same distance away from the guy depending on curves in the road or simply the amount of traffic/distractions on the side of the road. So now in the officers mind, the dude is going 75mph... Sounds like a STUPID way to write a ticket to me.

Ryan K.

 

I don't have to tell who is in the lead of two cars in front of me, I am just keepng my eye on the one speeding. Being able to tell who crossed the finish line first at the drags and seeing the car in front of you (while you are also driving at a similar speed) at a 1/4 mile is a HUGE difference. When pacing I am not comparing the car in front of me to the car next to it to see who is in front, I am merely keeping watch on it to make sure I am even with it's speed or, going less, in some cases I would go to 75 MPH and very easily see the car I was watching be pulling away from me, so you can accurately say that it was doing 75+.

Another huge difference is that you (at the drag strip - watching the race from thge starting line) are stationary so the car you are watching is always going away further and further, as opposed to pacing a car, you are maintaining the same or similar speed as it so it is not getting any further away from you........when you are stationary and someone is hauling *** away from you, it is a totally different perspective.

There are also easy ways they taught us to use time and stationary objects to assist in the pace. Simple math (for those of us dumb cops who passed 5th grade ) lets you use things like overpasses to mark timing to compare with how long it takes us to get to the same overpass. Kinda similar to how the airplanes pace cars from above. They use objects on the ground and a lil math and it is quite easy.

The other thing to remember is that if we are doing 60 (your second paragraph) then I am not pacing him/her cuz they aren't speeding. Once they are going over 70, that 1/2 mile passes much quicker. The faster they go, the faster that distance passes. Generally, if someone were a 1/2 mile away or more, I would use the "stop at 75 MPH and see if they are pulling away" theory and just write them for 75+ instead of going wacky and trying to catch up by having to do 90+ and then obtain a pace.........I did that for a Lambo who was easily doing over 110 but in traffic there was just no way to maintain that speed safely, so I stopped at 80, watched him walk away from me and then caught up to him and wrote him for 80+.

And if you are referring to the Superbowl lunch you owed me, you did make good on it but we can still go grab some grub anyway. Not sure I wanna drive to Tacoma just for Hooters anyway.

 

Well, for starters, if the dude is only going 5 over, he isn't (wasn't) worth my time. Secondly, if I am trying to pace someone, and I notice that I am overtaking them, then I slow down until I am even with their speed or going below it (can see them pulling away from me). And if I can't tell the diff between being 880 feet away or a 1/4 mile away, I am doing something very wrong. Generally speaking, if the curves are so blatent as to disrupt my view of the person, I am not going to be able to get an accurate pace on them.........I really wish I was still working so I could take you out and show you how simple it truly is to obtain an extremely accurate pace on someone.

 

Well alrighty then. I was wondering about he using roadside objects as a marker and timing it off. Good points. Damn ya!

There is a Hooters open in Downtown Seattle, right off the Mercer exit. Lake Union location. I know for a fact that Francesca works lunch and dinner shifts on Wednesdays and Fridays.

 

I had to LOL when you guys started bringing in the track stuff. Don't really know why though. But I understand what you are saying, unless there is a vast difference in speed/time, you never know who wins til lights or times pop up.

What boggles me sometimes is that they would pace you when I guess they could have just as easily radared you, but I guess they arent all set up for that type of thing. I know when I pace someone you can tell if they are speeding, or going below the speed limit, every now and then I try to guess how fast someone might be going and wonder how close I am, I never have the ***** to try and keep up and pace them just to see if I am right or not!

If I ever speed anymore, it is usually at a max of 5 over the posted limit, unless I get a little crazy, which happens seldom anymore, especially when I am stuck in a little old Ford Probe with a bad clutch, I couldn't speed if I wanted too.

Whenever we visit my wife's parents in Priest river and drive back, it seems that 9/10 I always get a cop that will follow me out of town, then slowly dwindle away, and usually I am on doing right on 60mph. Always makes me a little nervous when they back off, because then it runs through my mind that the speedo could be off and I am a min or two away from a ticket. Yet to happen yet though, usually they turn around at a storage place and go back and wait in the resteraunt parking lot for someone else, usually we drive home around midnight so I guess they have time to get a routine spot down.

 

I see what Rick meant... When you are a 1/4 mile back I would have a hard time saying if that car is going 5-10 mph faster than me.

 

Pacing is crap unless you are close like a few cars back. I have never gotten a pacing ticket. Radar/Laser is pretty accurate. Just like the cop my ex wife was humping used to say. I don't pace becuase I never win.
Now you know why I don't like cops. Guy was good friend of mine and he sure was taking care of me. That guy lied about just about everything. So I trust any of them anymore.

 

The speed limit was 30 MPH and He said that I was going 55. Which is total BS! I was going at best 40/45 at the VERY MOST! I have a M6 and was in 3rd gear going up a hill and around a Corner. He did say in his report that when he saw me take off that he was going 32 MPH. So it's only 2 MPH but technically he's speeding as well, and he put it in his report. Now the discussion about him rollin' up on me and I only had 2.5 seconds to react and slow down is, well I guess, but the funny thing is that I had already caught up to my friend and slowed down to 30 MPH and then I saw him roll up on me. Rott, I know you are going to defend the cop which is fine but this guys was pissed cause he had to work a Friday evening and also because I had a loud car. He referred to my "loud Camaro" several times in his report, it was hard not to laugh in court cause the judge had to keep repeating what his report said and it was funny that she had to keep saying "loud camaro" This was shortly after I put my LT's and it was crazy loud. Rott the problem that I have with this ticket was that he never paced me!!! I sped up and slowed down before he even had time to change lanes. The other thing is I what to know how that dude saw around a corner with trees and a guard rail in the way! Anyway I fought the law and I WON.

 

Thats what Im talking about!!! These "Cashiers" have the audasity to just "assume" the morale highground???? Im on the road more than anyone around and Ill tell you what I think. Today right now, you could drive down Bellevue way, naked, with your car on fire, swinging a freeken chainsaw out the window and if you arent doing five over,...... NOTHING will happen to you!!! Guys Its not about safety or any such thing, Its about creative revenue!!! Its about the path of least resistance, the path to money$$$$,.... way to go champ!! Ill fight EVERY ticket every damn one, forever!

 

It's all about how to get your money and not about anything else. The other thing is that his attitude was like he has NEVER sped in his life. How many times does everyone drive down the Freeway and look down and realize your speeding. The system is a bunch of PIMPS and we're their bitches.

 

I don't think I've ever had an encounter with the police in which they didn't lie about something. I have been lied to by the police more times then I can count and I'm only 18. I really find it hard to trust the police in any situation because you never know what they will try and blame you or set you up for.

 

I was not saying anything about committing purjery in court regarding the case at hand. I was merely reflecting on things I have witnessed in my own past. But, a ticket is a legal document, and signing a statement that you know to be false in a legal document is purjery. And the cop took an legal oath to uphold the law before he ever put on a badge.

 

Sounds goooooood to me.
That is absolutely true.....provided you are stationary. When moving along at the same or similar speed, it is fairly easy to tell if they are pulling away from you or if you are gainging on them.
Have you ever paced a car for citation purposes? I have done it hundreds maybe over a thousand times. It is very simple to do and requires no certification nor specialized equipment, unlike radar. The vast majority of cars are not equipped with radar so pacing is the most common form of speed verification.

As for your ex wife situation, I got divorced for the exact same thing, and she was banging a couple cops as well as other guys......including guys (cops) I worked with. It was shitty of your friend and your ex to do that to you but how you can condemn every cop in the world because some former friend of yours was cheating with your wife is beyond me. And as for his statement about pacing, either he sucked at it or he had no clue how to properly do it and testify regarding pacing vehicles for speeding citations.
So you don't really know how fast you were going........
Ok, he was going over the speed limit but peace officers are allowed to exceed the speed limit in the performance of their duties.
I have no idea what you were trying to say there......but just because you had slowed down doesn't mean you are off the hook for speeding earlier.
1st, I am not defending him nor will I since I wasn't there and don't know both sides of the story. I am/was merely pointing out to others as well as you the many variables that go into those situations as well as other possible options for how/why/etc. As for him being pissed cuz he had to work Friday and you having a loud car is just silly. I LOVED working weekends because that was when most of the action was, I usually volunteered for weekend duty. And why would he be pissed cuz you have a loud car? You say yourself that it was "crazy loud" so he was stating a fact, right
I don't get what him having time to change lanes has to do with anything? I could get a bumper pace (what this is called) from any lane. I don't have to be directly behind the violator to obtain an accurate pace. As for the trees and guard rail (?) he may have obtained his pace before you got to that point. Like I said, I wasn't there and I don't have both sides of the story but these are just some things to think about.

And you may have "fought the law" but the law just let you off. The officer couldn't/didn't make it to court so you lucked out, ya didn't win.
Obviously you have never seen how little a Municipality recieves from a citation........but it's cool, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
I can see why you think that but you couldn't be further from the truth overall (about "getting your money"). However I shall not argue this detail since most everyone who has received a ticket feels that way. :shrug:
Only 18 and yet you have had more encounters with the police where you have been lied to (and how do you know this?) then you can count? Sounds like you get in trouble a lot.......and yes, cops are always looking to blame some innocent person for something they didn't do just for the fun of it.

I love how every thread about tickets or cops brings every cop hater out of the woodwork.
Um, ok.......dunno what your beef with cops is but you sure do have it out for them. And FYI, every ticket I ever signed merely required the signature of the issuing officer, it is not perjerous even if it is 110% lies. It IS wrong & should be dealt with harshly, but does not fall under the perjury statutes. I also know I will never be able to convince you of anything positive when it comes to cops, so I will just give up on that one.