OSUBraden

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...BARB102OFQ.DTL

California State Supreme Court overturned a voter-approved ban on Handguns in San Fran. I guess I really don't have much to say other than I'm shocked their liberal courts actually stopped this...and even more shocked the voters tried to FORBID residents in San Fran from owning handguns. I can't imagine what this would have meant for us on the west coast had the ban passed... The last thing we need is for our WA and OR liberal nut job governors to get any ideas from gun haters in San Fran.

I've heard a lot of you, and others in my life, talk about getting their guns "while they still can." I think I'm finally going to jump on board. Can anyone recommend a decent, well priced first piece? I'm not just buying because of this article, I'd actually like to finally get my concealed permit and carry for safety too. I plan to become a 'law abiding citizen' who can work as a part of the 'solution to crime.' There are many times I sit in my college classes and look to the SINGLE door in the room and wonder what I'd have to do if some fool ran in with a gun and started shooting, like at Virgina tech, etc.

Of course before buying anything I plan on doing a lot of research, training etc.

KrautBurner

iTrader: (5)

one thing I like about Liberal "Hippie" oryGUN is that you have to take a class to get your carry permit.

I think that's a good idea here in Wa (and every state)

as far as a 1st gun,
lots of people will tell you a certain round is better than another, and same for brands.

1st and most important
find a gun that is comfortable in your hand, and comfortable to carry

go to a place like the Barron's Den (south of Eugene)
they have lots of inventory
as well, you can rent there guns and try them out in there indoor shooting range
(I did this when I was gun shopping)



do you wand an Auto-Loader? or a Wheel Gun?

I have one of each that I carry (not at the same time tho)
I have a Springfield Xd.357 (357 Sig)
and a Taurus 617 "Total Titanium" (2" .357 Mag)

I picked up the Taurus at Barron's Den

Tails

As Russ said, go to a range that allows you to rent and try out a bunch of guns. I settled on a Springfield XD .45. Now I am looking for something smaller that I can conceal in the hotter weather.

NataSS Inc

iTrader: (9)

I could write a novel on this one. But to keep everyones head from exploding, I'll keep it short.

1)If your going to buy a pistol, SPEND THE FREAKING MONEY!!!! In the fire arms world, you get what you pay for. Period, end of discussion

2)"Safe action" pistols, i.e. anything that does not have a manual safety, I do not care for in the least unless its a "wheel gun"

3)Practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice, practice......see where I am going with this one? One more time.....PRACTICE. Buying a handgun and taking it shooting once every six months isnt going to cut it. You have to be able to treat the pistol as an extension of your mind. And when you do practice, you treat every round as if it was the last round on the planet. Use proper body alignment, natural point of aim, proper grip, sight alignment, sight picture, focus on the front sight tip, breathing, SSSSSQQQQUUUUUUUUUEEEEEEEEZZZZZZZZING the trigger. Practice mag changovers, over and over and over and over and over remembering to keep your eyes on the target while doing so. Because when the time comes to have to actually make use of it, it has to happen RIGHT NOW, no fumbling, no "oops wheres my other mag", no "I'm skured". It has to be commited to muscle memory so it just happens. You also have to be preparred for the consequences of said actions as well. Because the desicion you have to make in a millisecond will be disected by attorneys for months (UNLESS there is absolutely no doubt in an officers mind that you acted within your rights).

When it comes time to buy, I like I mentioned, spend the money becuase you get what you pay for. Go cheap and you will get a cheap pistol that may or may not work when you need it to. Comfort and concealability are very important as well. I love my H&K USP .45 tactical, but its a large frame pistol and very difficult to hide on my body frame. My Springfield 1911x .45...perfect because of the thin frame and it goes in a "inside pants" holster very well.

A few fire arms I will steer you clear of though.
-Any AUTO made by Smith & Wesson, even the new M&P that alot of LE agencies are starting to use. All it is a dressed up sigma. You cant polish a turd. S&W wheel guns cant be beat. I have a model 640 .357, 5 shot, hammerless with trigger work and even with a "2 barrel I can blow the "X" ring out of a target at 25yrds with double action only.

-Alot of people love thier glocks, I dont. They are cheaply manufactured, they are "safe action", they have issues w/ feeding and "stove piping" frequently, and right out of the box I have yet to see one that shoots straight without massaging the sights a bit with a gunsmiths hammer and they have terrible triggers. They do however fit well in just about anyones hand and the way they are design places the hand high up on the lower reciever making recoil a bit better to control.

-Taurus (no offense to the above owner), I have seen more of these come apart with over the counter medium to hot loads than I care to remember. Factory triggers that you need a winch to pull and most Tarus made firearms are knock offs of other firearms.

-Berretta, my service pistol when I was in the Marine Corps. great for range use and plinking but I dont care for the fully exposed barrel, makes it very easy for fouling and there are more edges to snag on clothing when you need to pull it. that and in the older models the main pin holding the upper and lower recievers together likes to snap in half sending the upper reciever into your nose when you pull the trigger.

Good pistol IMHO

-The Springfield XD is the ONLY "safe action" pistol I would ever allow into my inventory. I actually plan on adding one when the funds allow. The XD is how the Glock SHOULD have been made. But you pay a premium for one and its worth it.

-Anything with the letters "H&K" written on the side of it. But you also pay the self imposed "H&K" tax. Its kind of like owning a vette.

-Springfield, Colt (in some cases), Kimber (since they fixed thier hammer problem) 1911/1991. These are tried and true combat pistols, its what professionals use in competition. These are however for a person that has a little more shooting experience than the average guy. They have 3 safety's, 2 of which have to be engaged and fliped down for it to shoot. 1 will be engaged if you just hold the pistol like you are supposed to and the other is the mechanical thumb safety. The 3rd is a half **** that to this day I have no idea why its on there, but it is. These are also a single action only firearm.

There is a long list of good and bad, but in an effort to keep it short I'll leave it at that.

As for Wa. turning into a "no pistol" state, wont happen. the reason those SanFran hippies couldnt get it to pass even with a liberal state is becuase of the recent ruling in Washington D.C. where they overturned the hand gun ban that was put in place 30 years ago IIRC. The D.C. Supreme court said that the ban was unconstitutional according to the second amendment. This was a HUGE success for the gun world.


So much for the short version.

BTTM

iTrader: (1)

I just purchased the Bersa Thunder 9! Felt better in my hand than the Taurus and got much better reviews. I'm happy.

I did take the class for the concealed carry permit in OR and it is VERY informative. I'd like to reiterate, practice, practice, practice. Not only practice shooting but also practice moving your clothing and getting the gun out of the holster; when to put your finger on the trigger, etc.

According to the officer that taught the class I attended, in a tense situation you lose approximately 35% of your shooting "ability". He stressed practicing and getting to a point where you are shooting "100's" at 1 to 18 feet (85% of shootings happen within 18 feet). Shooting 100's means that if you go to the range and shoot 50 rounds, all 50 rounds land within the 10 circle.

That's great news on the reversal of the gun ban in DC. Now hopefully someone will challenge the one in Chicago. Funny how the cities with absolute gun bans are the ones with the highest crime rates. Hmmmmm.

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

Boyce, nice post and I agree with just about every point you made. I am one of the ones that love my Glocks, however, so I disagree with your assessment on that front ESPECIALLY the FTF and stovepipe comment. I have thousands of rounds through all variation of Glocks and can count on one hand how many FTE/FTF I've had (actually I can recall having two and both were with a G26 that was brand new using WB). As far as the triggers - a nice polish and NY1 trigger spring does wonders IMO.

To the OP, definitely try out several handguns prior to purchasing. If you have a range close by where you can rent various models, I would suggest doing that.

Any of the major calibers for semi-auto (9mm, 40S&W, 45ACP) will serve you well if you have a pistol that is comfortable for you and you spend the time to practice. Choosing a proven self-defense load is also a good idea, but it will never substitute for competency (aka "you can't miss fast enough to win a gunfight").

In a wheelgun I'm also a big S&W fan. Something in a .38/.357 like a little J-frame makes a perfect summer carry piece IMO - especially with some Speer Gold Dots using their short barrel 135gr loads.

LSxChevelle

iTrader: (4)

I'm thinking I should get my permit now too...

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

IMO its something you should do even if you aren't interested in immediately purchasing a handgun or carrying one. For one thing it will allow you to avoid the 5-day waiting period when you do purchase, which just makes things easier, plus the more folks that have their permit the more formidable we are as a voter group (if you know what I mean). The WA process is so cheap and easy its almost a no-brainer to do it if you're even the most casual of gun owners.

LSxChevelle

iTrader: (4)

What is the process?

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

You just need to visit your County Sheriff's office, fill out some paperwork, get fingerprinted, and pay ~ $60 (IIRC). Assuming your background check comes back good, you should receive it in the mail in a couple of weeks. After that you'll just have to renew it every 5 years. Here in WA there are no classes or training that you need to attend.

Rottluver

iTrader: (3)

As far as what type/brand/caliber.......like a lot of others have said, go to a range that rents many different types and try them all until you find the one you can shoot with your eyes closed, half-asleep, in a fraction of a second.

As to carrying on campus, I don't know about Oregon, but a lot of States have legislation specifically forbidding concelaed carry on campus. Just so you know.........

I am not saying you should or shouldn't carry on campus, that is a personal choice you have to make, just be sure to know the law first.

Me personally, I would carry if I was going to go back to school.

Rottluver

iTrader: (3)

Or if he lives in the City limits of Kent, he would probably need to go to Kent PD. I had to go to Lynnwood PD to get mine since I live in the City limits......

Tails

I agree that WA won't change it's policy as one of the easiest states to own a gun however the US Supreme Court has accepted the DC case but has not yet ruled on it. It will be a landmark decision since it has to do with actually defining what the 2nd amendment means. Of course they may find some weasel room.

HitmanLSX

Boyce pretty much summed it up. The only other brand I'd add to that is Para-Ordnance. I rented all the 45's at Wades one day and just bought a few boxes of ammo. Went through every single one and none stood out to me more than the Para-Ord's. From the LDA carry option to the lil 3" warthog all shot really nice groups at various distances. What amazed me most about the warthog was how well balanced and easy to handle it was for such a short barrelled pistol.

Another gun I love to shoot is my dad's Ruger Blackhawk 357Mag. It's single action only but man if the ratcheting action of that wheelgun doesn't sound intimidating. I know I'd never wanna hear that anywhere near me in a hostile environment.

OSUBraden

Yeah, they 'outlaw' firearms on campus here too. I plan to...make my own decision...regardless. If my decision involves concealing on campus, the only time it would be unconcealed would be to stop a Virginia Tech massacre in progress--as with any other place.

Thanks for the information, I really appreciate the write ups. I'm going to visit the sheriffs dept. and take my required training class, hit the range and meet a few people, practice practice practice, check out some options with a few new gun-friends and eventually move on to purchasing. I'll let everyone know how things develop.

Rottluver

iTrader: (3)

My personal carry weapon is a full sized, alloy framed, Para Ordnance P-14 .45 (1911 style). Easiest thing I ever shot straight out of the box........until I shot an XD45........I am thinking of switching to that for my carry gun....but it is hard to go wrong with a double stacked .45 that is cocked & locked. With 1 spare mag I have 29 rounds of 230 grain fun for protection.

1970camaroRS

iTrader: (8)

I've owned a Beretta 96 .40, Para P-14 and now my Ruger P90 aluminum frame .45. I also have shot my Father's XD-90 and Taurus 1911 and my Brother's Kimber .45. Funny thing is my Ruger is the cheapest out of all of them and I like it the best. Maybe I just got a good one, but it's the one that fit me best. As was said before, it's all about how the gun fits YOU.

Fulton 1

iTrader: (9)

Good point. Being in Snoh. Co. I've always just gone to the Sheriff's office in Everett for my initial and for the renewals. After thinking about it, though, while I've lived in Everett, Lynnwood, and Marysville during that 15-year stretch, I was always technically just outside of city limits. Thanks for clarifying.

HitmanLSX

Amen

What's everyone's experience with stainless? Because I like the way it looks but is it any different to maintain? I'm used to cleaning my dad's guns and making sure to put bluing on them. Speaking of that... worst gun I've ever shot was a lil 3.5" Llama .32 Auto. Was too small for my hands and no matter what I did my hand always crept up the backstrap and would get nicked by the slide each shot.

I'm keepin my fingers crossed that I get this transfer at work from retail to corporate. Will make things a lot easier and I'll definately be buying my Para and a good carry holster.


Speaking of concealed carry, anyone on here had any experience with Coronado Leather? Always getting their catalogs just never heard any feedback.

Rottluver

iTrader: (3)

The only thing "different" about maintaining a stainless gun IMHO is that you can see the dirt/gunk (which makes cleaning easier and more efficient) and it looks really purty after you clean it. Hard to go wrong with stainless in a semi-wet climate.....or any climate for that matter. And you don't have to add any stainlessing to it when you clean it.

Never tried Coronado leather, but I also haven't bought a new holster in forever......I usually stuck with Galco, Safariland, Bianchi, occasionaly Uncle Mikes, etc. There are almost as many opinions about what brand/style/etc is best for a holster as there are for the weapons themselves.