Who is Going Racing at PR Friday?
05-22-2008, 08:28 AM
#21
Ladies and Gent it IS funny how time changes the tables. We HAVE beaten bigger teams and we HAVE been in the position Team ford is in.
To be honest it is also one of the biggest reasons we lost a bunch of people racing at one time. We dominated so hard for so long people grew werry of winning. We started to loose numbers. I have seen it happen to other teams as well.
Then there was the year we had weak numbers and proved it could be won with weak numbers. Granted we only won by a single point but we won. Even through the recounts. It took our VERY best effort. We won every race but two and many of the races we had three or four cars left by the semi's. Hell we had won race only two cars showed up and they took first and second!
If we want to be competive we need more racers. It has been hard for some of us to make alot of races the last few years and with gas prices even harder.
The fact of the matter is boys and girls you GOTTA show up to win!
Ellis
Two Time CCCA Prez.
Team NW F-Body Capt.
To be honest it is also one of the biggest reasons we lost a bunch of people racing at one time. We dominated so hard for so long people grew werry of winning. We started to loose numbers. I have seen it happen to other teams as well.
Then there was the year we had weak numbers and proved it could be won with weak numbers. Granted we only won by a single point but we won. Even through the recounts. It took our VERY best effort. We won every race but two and many of the races we had three or four cars left by the semi's. Hell we had won race only two cars showed up and they took first and second!
If we want to be competive we need more racers. It has been hard for some of us to make alot of races the last few years and with gas prices even harder.
The fact of the matter is boys and girls you GOTTA show up to win!
Ellis
Two Time CCCA Prez.
Team NW F-Body Capt.
05-22-2008, 09:08 AM
#22
Winning based on numbers IS the point.
We need to articulate the point of the CCC: The main point is to encourage people to come to the races to socialize and enjoy their cars. Getting people to the races means introducing new people to the sport. These neophytes will probably not perform well while learning. Using your system, each club would want to exclude new and inexperienced racers.
We need to articulate the point of the CCC: The main point is to encourage people to come to the races to socialize and enjoy their cars. Getting people to the races means introducing new people to the sport. These neophytes will probably not perform well while learning. Using your system, each club would want to exclude new and inexperienced racers.
The quantity without quality accusation directed at the FDT is not supported by the results, unless you compare the least experienced FDT members with the most experienced members from other clubs. The FDT has many new members, and many inexperienced members. There is a correlation.
Question is... if you're willing to put your claim to the test. I know I am.
05-22-2008, 10:33 AM
#23
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Not true... they'd just have more incentive to teach the newbs how to race well. Don's modification of my suggestion would merely add an additional trophy into the mix.
If this were true, there should be no issue with using my system, as your quality would outweigh your quanitity. However, I do recall races where we faced 30 Fords with 9 F-bodies in the first round, and in round two it was 9 Fords and 8 F-bodies. We put a lot of work into teaching our newbies how to race well, which is why we're a contender with half the turnout
Question is... if you're willing to put your claim to the test. I know I am.
If this were true, there should be no issue with using my system, as your quality would outweigh your quanitity. However, I do recall races where we faced 30 Fords with 9 F-bodies in the first round, and in round two it was 9 Fords and 8 F-bodies. We put a lot of work into teaching our newbies how to race well, which is why we're a contender with half the turnout
Question is... if you're willing to put your claim to the test. I know I am.
Your suggestion would represent a fundamental shift in the philosophy of the CCC. How 'bout giving additional points for going faster? That makes more sense to me. I know that suggestion won't be accepted: My point is that there are many directions we could go with the competition but we cannot change the format midstream. We agreed on the rules before we started this season, and the last 7 seasons.
Last edited by esoteric; 05-22-2008 at 10:38 AM.
05-22-2008, 10:37 AM
#24
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Ladies and Gent it IS funny how time changes the tables. We HAVE beaten bigger teams and we HAVE been in the position Team ford is in.
To be honest it is also one of the biggest reasons we lost a bunch of people racing at one time. We dominated so hard for so long people grew werry of winning. We started to loose numbers. I have seen it happen to other teams as well.
Then there was the year we had weak numbers and proved it could be won with weak numbers. Granted we only won by a single point but we won. Even through the recounts. It took our VERY best effort. We won every race but two and many of the races we had three or four cars left by the semi's. Hell we had won race only two cars showed up and they took first and second!
If we want to be competive we need more racers. It has been hard for some of us to make alot of races the last few years and with gas prices even harder.
The fact of the matter is boys and girls you GOTTA show up to win!
Ellis
Two Time CCCA Prez.
Team NW F-Body Capt.
To be honest it is also one of the biggest reasons we lost a bunch of people racing at one time. We dominated so hard for so long people grew werry of winning. We started to loose numbers. I have seen it happen to other teams as well.
Then there was the year we had weak numbers and proved it could be won with weak numbers. Granted we only won by a single point but we won. Even through the recounts. It took our VERY best effort. We won every race but two and many of the races we had three or four cars left by the semi's. Hell we had won race only two cars showed up and they took first and second!
If we want to be competive we need more racers. It has been hard for some of us to make alot of races the last few years and with gas prices even harder.
The fact of the matter is boys and girls you GOTTA show up to win!
Ellis
Two Time CCCA Prez.
Team NW F-Body Capt.
05-22-2008, 11:08 AM
#26
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Ladies and Gent it IS funny how time changes the tables. We HAVE beaten bigger teams and we HAVE been in the position Team ford is in.
To be honest it is also one of the biggest reasons we lost a bunch of people racing at one time. We dominated so hard for so long people grew werry of winning. We started to loose numbers. I have seen it happen to other teams as well.
Then there was the year we had weak numbers and proved it could be won with weak numbers. Granted we only won by a single point but we won. Even through the recounts. It took our VERY best effort. We won every race but two and many of the races we had three or four cars left by the semi's. Hell we had won race only two cars showed up and they took first and second!
If we want to be competive we need more racers. It has been hard for some of us to make alot of races the last few years and with gas prices even harder.
The fact of the matter is boys and girls you GOTTA show up to win!
Ellis
Two Time CCCA Prez.
Team NW F-Body Capt.
To be honest it is also one of the biggest reasons we lost a bunch of people racing at one time. We dominated so hard for so long people grew werry of winning. We started to loose numbers. I have seen it happen to other teams as well.
Then there was the year we had weak numbers and proved it could be won with weak numbers. Granted we only won by a single point but we won. Even through the recounts. It took our VERY best effort. We won every race but two and many of the races we had three or four cars left by the semi's. Hell we had won race only two cars showed up and they took first and second!
If we want to be competive we need more racers. It has been hard for some of us to make alot of races the last few years and with gas prices even harder.
The fact of the matter is boys and girls you GOTTA show up to win!
Ellis
Two Time CCCA Prez.
Team NW F-Body Capt.
05-22-2008, 01:18 PM
#27
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That would be cool. It would give incentive for people push their cars instead of laying up a couple seconds off their fast ET. THAT and any event that can be won by a stock '83 CVCC is gay, IMO.
05-22-2008, 01:34 PM
#29
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You're addressing the most basic complaint about bracket racing, and I tend to agree. The thing that makes bracket racing acceptable to me is the team spirit and camaraderie aspect of CCC. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother doing it. Those folks that enjoy it as individuals can race most weekends at either Bremie Saturday and Sunday or at PR on Saturday. So true bracket racing experts have their venue. In fact, they have two venues. I am more interested in getting my car to run better. To each his own.
05-22-2008, 01:44 PM
#31
I've paid real close attention to this, and I'm pretty sure if you added up the numbers from last season the way I suggested, you'd see just how well NWFB did at consistently making rounds. We had a 50% or better win average as a team for almost every race, and I don't think many teams in the CCC could say that.
Oh geez, not that whole bit again. 
Bracket racing isn't about going faster, it's about being consistent. Will you please just go into heads up racing if you want it to be about going faster?
I don't have any trouble beating the slow cars, in fact I think a lot of them are ducks. If you look at the top racers in last year's series, almost everyone ran 12-13 second times. They can run all the '83 Honda Civics they want... they aren't winning. Sounds to me like you're the only one having trouble with them.
Of course in NVME's case, he'd have to show up at the track to know that.
Who suggested changing the rules mid season? Did I miss that post?
Your suggestion would represent a fundamental shift in the philosophy of the CCC. How 'bout giving additional points for going faster? That makes more sense to me. I know that suggestion won't be accepted:
Bracket racing isn't about going faster, it's about being consistent. Will you please just go into heads up racing if you want it to be about going faster? I don't have any trouble beating the slow cars, in fact I think a lot of them are ducks. If you look at the top racers in last year's series, almost everyone ran 12-13 second times. They can run all the '83 Honda Civics they want... they aren't winning. Sounds to me like you're the only one having trouble with them.
Of course in NVME's case, he'd have to show up at the track to know that.
My point is that there are many directions we could go with the competition but we cannot change the format midstream. We agreed on the rules before we started this season, and the last 7 seasons.
Last edited by DrEvyl; 05-22-2008 at 02:19 PM.
05-22-2008, 11:20 PM
#32
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I see no reason to break up the FDT. Nobody wanted to kick Bill Sallia & Ellis & Jonathon off the NW F-body team when we kicked butt 2 years in a row. Fortunes of war I say. The Camaro Club is building back up. Aaron & FAST Co is coming back. We will be back too. We need MORE racers & teams, not less. And having lots of Fords out there just makes it more fun for me. I like beating you guys. 
05-23-2008, 01:41 AM
#33
For the record it was three years in a row 
Steph and I bought the house and got married in 2003 and that was the first year Team NW F-body did not take 1st since they started racing. Then you guys took it to a win in 2005 again to make up for it 
I am no where as good as I used to be. For some reason people feared me...They damn well knew better then to think I would not come around them at the top end
I think Bill is one race up on me. Hoover and I are about even. I had more fun teaching people to race the last few years then I actually did racing.
Here are a few reasons to race
Steph and I bought the house and got married in 2003 and that was the first year Team NW F-body did not take 1st since they started racing. Then you guys took it to a win in 2005 again to make up for it I am no where as good as I used to be. For some reason people feared me...They damn well knew better then to think I would not come around them at the top end
I think Bill is one race up on me. Hoover and I are about even. I had more fun teaching people to race the last few years then I actually did racing.Here are a few reasons to race
05-23-2008, 01:23 PM
#34
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Someone start a decent streetcar heads up class and I would love to race in it bewteen deployments. I have been kicking around the idea of racing the BC supershifters class. Mission Raceway is better/closer to me anyway and it would be against other street cars that aren't "point and shoot".
05-23-2008, 01:31 PM
#35
Well Eric IF YOU had a fast car you would probably still not race the Heads up classes here because you do not have the money to out buy the big guys here any more then you would any where else
I have said many times I do not have a fast car. Then again your box is just as slow as any one elses
I have said many times I do not have a fast car. Then again your box is just as slow as any one elses
05-23-2008, 01:35 PM
#36
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The lessons I learned from Ellis as well as others over the past few years have cut my times significantly as well as made me better on the lights and with consistency. Just wish I could actually make it out to CCC races to put it to use lol.
05-23-2008, 02:01 PM
#37
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Well Eric IF YOU had a fast car you would probably still not race the Heads up classes here because you do not have the money to out buy the big guys here any more then you would any where else
I have said many times I do not have a fast car. Then again your box is just as slow as any one elses
I have said many times I do not have a fast car. Then again your box is just as slow as any one elses
You may talk to me about having a fast car when you can keep the head gaskets in your own car. You can start with making it at least one season. Move up from there at your own pace.
05-23-2008, 02:23 PM
#38
I have raced many seasons. I blew a head gasket BFD? My car is still up and running. I am still trying to figure out WTF that has to do with the price of rice in china and you never racing? When I get the new converter I will be racing it again. Some thing you can not seem to figure out how to do.
Hey if you think your car is fast wonder out and play with the heads up boys. They will put money on every round. Hell Ask Tony, you mouth off to much they will take your box home with them too
