00ultraz28

iTrader: (2)

My thinking right now is that even though you sanded the sealer the base made no chemical bond with it since it had met its full dry time. You probably used fairly light coats of base being the reason it didn't show up till you cleared it. Once you laid a heavy coat of clear down the solvents trying got between the color and sealer and lifted the paint making it wrinkle like it did.

ctjohns

iTrader: (10)

I paint everyday at work, if you scuffed the sealer and did not re-coat it with another coat of sealer, that is the problem. I wait only 5-10 minutes between coats and, knock on wood, have never had this problem. Any time you let a step sit for a time and scuff it, it must be re-coated. etch prime, sealer, base, whatever. Just my .02, Chuck

Lee12609

iTrader: (3)

i used to paint for a living, this could simply be humidity and flash related, however from what you describe about the sealer that is most likely what went wrong.

you need to spray the sealer and then do base coat when the sealer has flashed, keep the coats wet but give plenty of flash time (higher humidity means more time), and anytime you're doing a metallic like that do a dust coat, then clear.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

First, I want to thank everyone who has helped out. It's been a very stressful and dissappointing week to say the least. It's just hard to see all hard work from the past months go to **** it a matter of mins. But, we live and learn right.

UPDATE
Onto the matter at hand. My brother (who is not new to the painting scene) came down today to help out. When I spoke to the sales guy at the paint store he said that my problem came from me sanding the sealer down and not applying a fresh coat prior to painting. Well, today we decided to do a test run on the spoiler and follow his advise.

Please keep in mind that this panel did not come from this car and still had the original red paint still on it. This way no one can say it's someone on the car causing the issue. I wet sanded the complete panel with 320 and again with 800 grit. We then shot 2 coats of Transtar sealer. One hazy coat and the other a full wet coat. We waited 15 mins and applied the first coat of base (reduced 1:1) We applied a total of 3 coats of base. Now here's the kicker. Last time I painted my car I waited 20-25 mins before I laid down the first coat of clear and by the time I was finished with the 3rd coat I started seeing all the cracking. This time we waited almost 3 hrs to make sure it wasn't the base coat that was cracking on it's own. We applied a hazy coat followed by 2 full wet coats 15 mins in between. Just when my brother got thru clearing 1/2 the panel we started seeing the cracks come up.

Here is a pic....


After talking to my brother we both agree that the problem is not in our technique. I actually painted the car pretty damn well for my first time...which pisses me off even more because it wasn't my f*ckup. So anyway, we agree that the problem is either the Transtar sealer or the Olive clear/hardener. The base is fine. The minute the clear goes on problems start poping up. My brother told me that he has never used sealer before prior to painting. He just shoots the primer, sands if necessary, re-coat if necessary and apply the base. Either the clear is causing the problem on it's own or it's making the sealer or paint re-act to something.

Remember, the guy at the paint shop painted a small test panel with my paint and it came out fine. I know he didn't apply any sealer because I left it at home.

Well, that's where I stand right now. I'm going to try and take the spoiler to the paint guy once it's dry so that he can see. And he can't say anthing this time because I followed his instructions by applying the sealer prior to painting.

98camarols1

iTrader: (1)

wht type of hardener are you using for clear?fast?medium?or slow?and hows the weather where u live?

Danny

iTrader: (16)

I used a medium hardener. The weather here that day was about 78 degrees outside with about 55% +/- humidity. The weather yesterday (when I painted the spoiler) was about 80 degrees with 47% humidity.

I'm seriously thinking its the sealer at this point. I'm almost willing to bet money on that.

98camarols1

iTrader: (1)

at this stage i would recommend to take tht panel to the paint shop.and have them do everything step by step by using the same products and etc.and c wht happens

Danny

iTrader: (16)

I'm sure the sealer is the problem. I'm going to try painting another test panel and see what happens. If it's indeed the sealer I'm going to take it back and get a refund...even though it's 1/2 way gone.

If it still does it, then I'll take your advise and take everything back again and have them figure it out. Because I didn't just shell out $900 in materials for it not to work.

TyCZ28

The problem isnt the sealer. Transtar makes great products.. the problem is the fact that EVERYTHING you used isnt from the same brand.. if you use a sealer from one company, base from another and clear from another your just asking for trouble.. your supposed to use ALL PRODUCTS from the same company. i have seen first hand what mixing amd matching can do

Danny

iTrader: (16)

I see what you're saying about using the same brand stuff but this is all what the paint store sold me. I didn't request anything specific. I just asked for a specific color and all the necessary material to complete a job. What I'm saying it's the sealer because how do you explain the fact that when he sprayed the test panel at the store with my base/clear nothing happened. Then when I use the sealer on another panel everything goes to ****.

TyCZ28

because your using a transtar sealer with a sherwin williams base... the base wont adhere to the transtar sealer. My resto guy has been painting cars for 30+ years and hes used the transtar line of products for the past 5 with no issues. its just the chemical makeup of the sealer is designed for Transtar bases not the sherwin williams base you used. if the paint store sold you everything id go back with a receipt and demand a full refund or replacement due to them selling you the wrong ****. So what im saying is yes the sealer is causing your problem. but not because its bad quality or defective. its because its not meant to work with the base your using

Danny

iTrader: (16)

I'm with you 100% on that one man. I'm def going to go back and ask for a refund on this sealer. Just in case they give me a hard time on returning it, is there a way I can prove that this sealer doesn't work with the base/clear they sold me?

TyCZ28

Dont just get a refund on the sealer. get a refund on all the materials. they sold you stuff that is incompatible and ruined the paint job... if you absolutely have to you can probably call or email sherwin williams and have them fax or email you a letter stating that you cant mix brands. ocassionally you get lucky but any reputable paint store and painter should know that you cant mix things. the only things that can be different are the primer because you sand it anyways, and pearls or flakes because they are dry. otherwise the chemical makeup isnt right. was it a local store or was it an larger buisness you bought the paint from.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

It's a small local place. I don't why but for some reason I think I'm going to have a hard time getting a refund on everything. I'm really hoping Sherwin Williams can get me something in writing.

mcalus

iTrader: (14)

Wow that sucks! Id be pissed... im sure you are.

This is just my opinion. ( I didn't read every post so this may have came up before )

Maybe i missed it but do is it solvent based basecoat or waterborne? If you don't let your basecoat totally dry it can wrinkle.

If you use different brands on top of each other it will be an issue.

Also, for your sealer it isn't supposed to be sanded. Sealer is made to cover up any imperfections or small burn throughs during preping. The base is made to go directly on top of your sealer.

Again, hopefully this helps. I may have repeated some things.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

Thanks man.

The only reason why I scuffed up my base coat is because it was sitting for a few days before I applied the basecoat. So I wanted to make sure the basecoat grabbed onto the sealer. I just didn't realize I had to recoat it again with the sealer before I shot the base.

I'm going to play around with a few test panels this wknd to narrow down what is the actual issue. This way when I go down to the paint supply store, they can't give me any BS.

The paint is solvent based. I'm already at that point where I just want to shoot primer, sand with 800 grit or finer and shoot my base and be done with it.

00ultraz28

iTrader: (2)

Most of transtars products are universal with MOST bases .... I've used the 2k qwick seal and had pretty decent results with it .... however I've never used sherwin Williams base /clear.

BLK95-Z

iTrader: (2)

Wow that sucks. Last time we had something do that it was the sealer. I cant remember the brand but we went back to the old sealer and have not had any problems since.

Danny

iTrader: (16)

UPDATE

Thanks guys for all the great help and suggestions. It was very appreciated. As for the paint I found out the problem...FINALLY.

I called Sherwin Williams directly and the guy I spoke to (who was very helpful) mentioned to me that the base coat requires hardener. I asked him if he was sure because I remember asking the paint store several times if it needed hardener and the answer was always "no". He assured me that it does require hardener and even printed out the spec sheet for me to show it. So I bought a pint of hardener and went home to try it out once more. I sanded down the spoiler (which was a bitch) and last night at 12:20am I finished. Also, just to make sure it wasn't the sealer I masked off 1/2 the spoiler and applied sealer. Then removed the wrapping and applied base and clear to the whole panel with 10mins flash time.

Compare this....


to this....


All this time I was lead to believe it wasn't the products but my prep or process in painting. To think all this **** happened because of a small $25 bottle of hardener. What pisses me off is that I asked when I bought all the supplies, "is this everything I need to spray the car?". He said yes. Then again right before I was about to shoot the base on the car I called again and asked, "I just finished reducing the paint 1:1 and I'm getting ready to shoot it, do I need hardener?". Again, no.

On top of all this **** he told me the incorrect mixing ratio. It's not 1:1, it's 2:1. So after spending $900 on materials (2 gals of base, 2 gals of reducer, 1 gal of sealer, 2 qts of clear hardener, etc) I'm now short almost 1 gal of base, 1 gal of clear, 1 gal of reducer and 1 gal of lacquer thinner.

I'm going to call the paint store today and ask them to replace the wasted materials due to their mistake. I'm not asking them to reimburse me for all the labor and prep time that was wasted on the car, just the materials. Which I think is more than fair.

What do you guys think?



Just a little advise to those starting out painting....ALWAYS, ALWAYS GET THE MANUFACTER'S SPEC SHEET FOR THE MATERIALS AND FOLLOW THEM. The whole purpose of this thread was for others to learn from my experience.

TyCZ28

Yea they should replace materials for their screwup. i didnt even notice the mix ratio and now come to think of it. Summit Racing paints are rebranded sherwin williams and need to be mixed 2:1 with like 2oz of hardener or somthing so makes sense